Baptized With Holy Spirit And Fire!

Discussion in 'Holy Spirit Baptism and Living' started by FieryOne, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. if you look up the Greek, you will see there is no place called hell. it should be translated hades. In Lk. 16 we see that hades is a place where departed spirits wait till the great white throne judgment. Believers when they go to sleep go to paradise not heaven. That is why in Revelations it is called the new heavens . God dwells in the old heaven. Not talking about a worn out one just he descides later to have a new one.

    death and hades as we see in Rev. 19 and cast into what we would really call hell, but it is called the lake of fire.

    We never go to anywhere but paradise if we go to sleep. We didn't go to hell but Jesus delivered us from there. Jesus told the thief ----today you will be with me in paradise. The place of torment is accross the street so to speak. it is still called Hades the place of departed spirits. there is a great gulf fixed and none can pass to other side.

    Jesus when visit paradise could be seen and glorified from folks across the gulf, he didn't wrestle keys from the devil's hands. keys in the bible were meant to be understood as authority. Just like in Isa. where it says keys on his shoulder to rule the government. keys to a city which I have seen are about a foot long. it would be ridiculous to think he wore them. If you see spiritual things in the bible you have to make sure you don't make them literal.

    a sinner cannot take away sin. They must have none first. Jesus had to be a perfect lamb without spot. He wasn't a literal lamb. He was a sacrifice like a lamb. Picture of this is Abraham and Issaac. It was mount Moriah which is the place where Jesus went to the cross. Calvery hill is in Moriah. What most people don't know is Goliath's sword
    is hidden under Golgotha the hill of the skull. The sword cut off Goliath's head, yet the hill looks like a skull
    where the cross was. In Gen. 3:15 he will crush the serpent's head by bruising his heal. He , Jesus is the son of ---David. The slayer of Goliath.
     
  2. in Jer. 23:29 is not my word, ----like -----a fire

    Hosea 7:6 like----a oven.

    Joel 2:5 like----a fire. the symbolism of fire is used to spiritually represent a cleansing and purifying element.
    tongues of fire was a sign that sat on them. there is no statement as to what the fires would do so we see there was a spiritual meaning by a visual sign. The Spirit of holiness when it comes on a person changes them into another man---as Saul's case. That would mean as a fire their flesh life is consumed immediately. They must maintain it after that cleansing.

    to make a point we wouldn't say cleansing meaning soap and water. it is another type of cleansing. It is now called washed by the water of the word. literal fire would be like the furnace. No Holy Spirit baptism till Pentecost though.

    we must be aware of the word ---like--- God's word like a fire---because it cleanses and that fire term best describes that.
     
  3. The scripture in Mathew does not use the word "like". Mathew is not drawing on a simile to engage an allegorical concept.

    The verses in Mathew cannot be taken in isolation. V12 carries on with the teaching that He (Jesus) will cleanse the floor (the winnowing floor) and take His wheat (the saved) and will burn the chaff (the unsaved) who end up in eternal punishment (lake of fire at the end of the age). Mathew is using the allegory of winowing wheat where the wheat and chaff get separated. This implies that the saved and the unsaved are separated. Now to put the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire in context. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is given to believers (the wheat), the baptism of fire is a judgement of the chaff (unbelievers).

    To be baptised with "fire" is a concept which is propogated a lot in churches today, probably because it sounds cool - better than to be baptised with love, peace, joy etc. There are only two passages in scripture which refer to being baptized with fire (Matt. 3:11, Luke 3:16). Both relate to the same incident and both relate to judgement. Make no mistake to be baptised in fire is not a good and pleasent ordeal. Thank goodness it is the Holy Spirit who does the baptizing and not some wacky priest who prays for his people to be baptized in fire. Good old saying here in SA. Play with fire and you will get burnt.

    When the apostles got baptized with the Holy Spirit - the sign was tongues of fire, not fire itself. The same could be said for the baptism of Jesus, the sign was a dove coming down. I dont hear any teaching of the baptism of birds - doesnt sound so cool as fire though, can you imagine being covered in feathers?:)

    A bit of an after thought - there is a differecne between being baptized in fire and being refined through fire. Refining is a process (uncomfortable) whereby God exposes our sin to us and then cleanses us from it which leads to our repentance. Baptism is something which identifies us. Baptism in the Holy Spirit (at conversion - I do not wish to discuss further baptisms here) identifies us as children of God, family - the church. Baptism of fire identifies us with unbelievers and sentences us to eternal punishment.
     
  4. We see John's baptism is with water. it was for the purpose of cleansing unto repentance to receive the Lord.
    We see a picture of the nature of the Holy Spirit's work in the lamp stand in the book of Revelations. oil is a symbol of anointing. with out the oil of the Spirit there would be no fire. The 5 of the 10 virgins had no oil in their lamps. The fire went out. They must get oil. That is the anointing. then the fire will do his work. Fire pictures the searching, consuming, refining work of the Spirit.

    Some cross some ideas with their fire idea. One is if you are not hot or cold, but lukewarm I (God ) will spew you out of my mouth. That sounds like falling away from God. Tongues of fire stood over the saints at Pentecost.
    Never heard of anyone having that when they got the baptism with tongues. Hot in the case of not lukewarm is dealing with active progress in life. We can see that only the Spirit can help us be alive according to Rom. 8:6.

    I like the cross idea , it is where God uses fire trials to help rid us of the flesh life. If we allow conviction to do it's work , conviction is grace to, we can avoid God's stronger work to get through stubborn minded by yielding to his inner work. Americans are needing to get rid of idols, even American idol. TV commercials have planted a lot of covetousness in people covet is idolatry, including pursue the dream. This is mostly get rich quick.
     
  5. Yes, my thoughts are you did not really understand these scriptures.
    John the Baptist was the one Isaiah prophesied about as stated in v3 here. The 'fire' John refers to here is "trial by fire". The chaff is what Jesus takes out of our lives and burns away. 1 Peter 4:12-14 talks about this from Peter's post Jesus perspective.
    Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.
    The second death is ONLY reserved for unbelievers and leads them directly to eternal punishment. The moment they hot the lake of fire, their physical bodies that were raised by Christ in Rev 20:11-13.
     

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