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Babylon the Great City is.....

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by 1whirlwind, Aug 28, 2010.

  1. Babylon the Great City is.....

    Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

    If we are sealed either to God or Satan we then carry their marks "in our foreheads," in our minds (not on our foreheads...meaning we follow them).

    Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

    Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    Mystery Babylon is marked "upon her forehead" just as those that follow Satan.

    Revelation 17:1-3 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    The angel explains....

    Revelation 17:15,18 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. (18) And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    From those passages we know the woman, the whore, is marked in her forehead as a follower of Satan and is the mother of all harlots (idolatry) and abominations on earth. She IS the great city Babylon. And she sitteth on many nations because she "reigns over kings of the earth." The leaders rule the waters (people, nations, etc.) and she rules the leaders. Notice that she sitteth on the waters and she sits on the scarlet beast...they are one and the same. All people and nations that have Satan's mark are....the scarlet beast. World-wide dominion.

    Mystery Babylon has a king of Babylon and he is God's servant....

    Ezekiel 30:24-25 And I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon, and put My sword in his hand: but I will break Pharaoh's arms, and he shall groan before him with the groanings of a deadly wounded man. But I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon, and the arms of Pharaoh shall fall down; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall put My sword into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall stretch it out upon the land of Egypt.

    Ezekiel 32:10-12 Yea, I will make many people amazed at thee, and their kings shall be horribly afraid for thee, when I shall brandish My sword before them; and they shall tremble at every moment, every man for his own life, in the day of thy fall. For thus saith the Lord GOD; The sword of the king of Babylon shall come upon thee. By the swords of the mighty will I cause thy multitude to fall, the terrible of the nations, all of them: and they shall spoil the pomp of Egypt, and all the multitude thereof shall be destroyed.

    Our Father strengthens the king of Babylon/Satan/His servant by giving him His sword. His sword is...His Word, s-word. Satan brandishes the Word, the Sword, as if he was of God but...he is a deceiver, the great deceiver. God allows this to test His children. What mark will we allow in our foreheads?

    Is Babylon Rome? Is she America? Is she Jerusalem? No.

    Micah 4:10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem theefrom the hand of thine enemies.

    1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

    God's children, all believers, were to be taken into captivity by Babylon. We were to live in this great spiritual city and there we are delivered from our surrounding enemies. We are the church and that church "is at Babylon" where God's Sword is being used deceptively. Do we stay there? No.....

    Revelation 18:3-4 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

    Babylon, the great city, the great whore that rules the world and it's people is...religion, false religion. "Come out of her, My people."

  2. Hey Whirlwind :) I thought i'd examine your post as though it were a prophecy . it seems to be structured and conclude like one . hope you find what i've examined helpful .

    1 Thessalonians 5:19-22

    19Do not put out the Spirit's fire; 20do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21Test everything. Hold on to the good. 22Avoid every kind of evil.

    Revelation 19:10

    At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

    Okay .. let's examine this .

    Exodus 13:6-10

    6 For seven days eat bread made without yeast and on the seventh day hold a festival to the LORD. 7 Eat unleavened bread during those seven days; nothing with yeast in it is to be seen among you, nor shall any yeast be seen anywhere within your borders. 8 On that day tell your son, 'I do this because of what the LORD did for me when I came out of Egypt.' 9 This observance will be for you like a sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that the law of the LORD is to be on your lips. For the LORD brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand. 10 You must keep this ordinance at the appointed time year after year.

    Figurative Instruction Examples:

    Exodus 13:9
    This observance will be for you like a sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that the law of the LORD is to be on your lips. For the LORD brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand.

    Exodus 13:16
    And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the LORD brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand."

    Deuteronomy 11:18
    Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.

    Literal Instruction Examples

    Deuteronomy 6:6-9

    6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.


    An interesting coincidence

    2 Chronicles 26:19

    Uzziah, who had a censer in his hand ready to burn incense, became angry. While he was raging at the priests in their presence before the incense altar in the LORD's temple, leprosy broke out on his forehead.

    It appears the mark can be a literal mark on hand or (underlined because that is commonly missed) forehead and can be a figurative mark related to works . but since the mark needs to be visible so people can buy food and stuff .. and it is called the "beast" it would make sense to be carnally detectable so it could be enforced . but it can be figurative also .

    Satan is the red dragon . it is the mark of the beast not so much the dragon . though that would make a good name for a movie :D . according to the book of revelation the great city is a spiritual location . it is Sodom and Egypt where the Lord was also crucified .
    disputable matters, agree to disagree regarding the historical king of babylon . technically the city/woman riding on the beast is surrounded by ten horns or kings .

    interesting . but will take some time to prove as doctrine can be repented of . but the mark cannot .
    well on one parallel all of those could be true at one point in history . but in context of the parallel you are studying . yes i would agree .

    that doesn't follow . if God's church is there according to an apostle . then it is God's church . in support of your basis, if it is not a physical nation then it would make sense to not be a physical city either .

    hmm that's hard to support from the support texts of Revelation in the OT . fornication and adultery in a figurative context are attributed to idolatry . so this city would be a location that a lot of trade passes through and all the blood of the saints is in . since the nations are doing a better job of killing saints now than the church used to during the state religion phase of history . it is hard to really say .

    I'd say this could possibly fulfill the Old testament mandate for prophecy to turn everyone from their sins . would suggest in a message of repentance to say what exactly we are turning from and what we are turning to . (False religion is too vague, what is false about it? and what's the corrective God has lighted on your mind? so that all may be edified .)

    but according to the new covenant . it is not enough about Jesus . but a lot of good and original material in there keep working on it . :)

    Hope that helps .


  3. When you go to the King James you'll find the above translations were not correct. Where it is written, "on your hand," it is a Hebraism meaning...to work for someone. The verses about being "on" a forehead are properly translated "in" for it is to be in your minds, in your thoughts, part of your beliefs and life. It isn't a visible mark.

    I'm so glad you understand the great city is NOT a literal location.Few do. I agree that Satan is the red dragon but he has many names, many roles he performs. He, as the king of Babylon, controls the "principalities and powers in high places," so the beast is under his direction. (I'm not sure they understand that but...they are). Consider too that there are two beasts.

    There was a historical king of Babylon but he was a type for Satan. An example for us. Also, the ten horns/kings aren't around the woman until the "one hour with the beast."

    Revelation 17:3,7,12 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. (7)And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. (12) And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
    The woman is the whore, is the great city Babylon and she sits on the beast. She also sitteth on the waters, which the angel explained as being "peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues," so this first beast and the waters are the same thing. This beast has seven heads and those heads are the leaders/heads/rulers of the people and nations...perhaps they represent the seven continents?

    The angel explained the ten horns on the beast as ten kings but...they will not be in power until the "one hour with the beast." I believe they are supernatural...fallen angels. I also believe the beast mentioned there is the second beast...not the multitudes of people but the beast of [Rev.13:11]

    It is interesting to note that these ten kings to come into power "hate the whore." I don't yet understand that.

    Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

    It isn't a literal city. Peter tells us that God's church is "at Babylon," but Babylon is everywhere...just as God's children are not in one location. It means they are under the influence of Babylon...Satan's deception, false religion....and He is calling us, His church, out.

    The city is everywhere....remember the great city is the whore sitting on the people, multitudes, nations and tongues of the whole world.

    Ah, but Jesus is the Word....understanding His Word is what has "lighted on my mind." :smile_anim::amen:
  4. hmm.. I been seeing the city as the church..
  5. Hey cool, thanks for your response :) :)

    but it was interpreted literally that way . in Jesus day . Jesus made fun of the pharisees who wore big Phylacteries as if they had something to compensate for . and told them what it was too . they wore the remembrance of the law dangling down from their foreheads and tied to their right hand . since the people it was delivered to applied it that way and for a generation or so under duress of being smitten dead .. it then stands to reason there is a literal application and from the other passages a figurative understanding also .

    Actually there are three .

    the first one is an amalgamation of the first three in the book of daniel

    the second is the fourth in the book of daniel

    the first gives the second its power

    and then the third beast is a lamb with two horns that speaks as a dragon .

    tres interesant eh?

    The king of babylon was also a type of Christ . as He was called a "King of Kings" and was the head of Gold . add up all the imagery and numerology of the four kingdoms in the book of Daniel and you get the tabernacle . So whenever you have a type of Christ you also have a type of His antithesis .

    And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (Revelation 17:18)

    When the bible identifies what a figurative variable is . then that is what it is . woman is a city that rules over a great world empire . and like when a rich person takes over a poor country with military might .. quite often the general seems to end up taking over instead not too long after . this would fit well with the prophecy of the one who would defeat with peace and destroy wonderfully . Revelation 18 seems to indicate that there will be all these ships with goods and no way of trading them because the world capital was razed by the council of kings . the ten horns .

    You and Bob Jones would have fun with this concept with his Sensus Plenior method . i wonder if he's around?

    hmm well an alternate interpretation is .. in the roman empire it was all the roads leading to rome .. and in the internet .. all the wires leading the electronic pathways . in the spiritual . well that goes into something most people stare blankly at me when i begin to talk about it .

    lol . hahahhaha . haven't heard or used that one in years . God bless you . tee hee .
  6. There are Seven heads of blasphemy . so lots of room for interpretation . how does the church resemble the city in your observation?
  7. So far, in looking at the 2000 year history since the bible was written.
    I have found that the church has distorted the truth from time to time and created this domination thing..
    To me it seems that it has lead entire nations a stray a good example is what I posted in the bible history thread.
    When the church banned bible translations in to other lans and distorted the truth in latin..
    I do agree with keeping to the bible, but the more I look in to the history of the last 2000 years, the more it points to the church.
    The church is still today, leading entire nations a stay with their different human beliefs structures.
    and so on...

    The only way it dont really fit (yet) is the fornication thing, but then again I see a local church of mine thats rather accepting fornication and divorce and remarriage of Christan folk.

    It also fits because its all around us, its part of us etc etc, just like the rev says it is...
    I dont know. its just another thing to think about... I dont think Babylon is a women though, by any means.
  8. according to the example the prophets gave the fornication would be an idolatry thing .

    JLA, if the church were to throw out one idol in common . and replace it with a Godly alternative .. what would it be in your humble opinion?
  9. Hmm, wasn the cross actually a stake?
    What would they replace, say the cross with? a stake? or have they already replaced the stake with a cross?

    The cross is very much idolized, when you think about it.. But I do feel mixed about that..
    I mean on one hand it represents what Jesus paid the price for, on the other God said not to worship/idolize things of this world and the cross is not Jesus, its a thing of this world.

    I will keep wearing the cross out of repesect for the price Jesus paid for me, like others do.
    But it could get replaced, or maybe its already been replaced?
  10. well Jesus' Cross looked like it because of the INRI (King of the Jews) notice above it

    But all the rest of them looked like a "T"

    the stake was more of a medieval thing that people with inconvenient opinions got burned at .

    also i've heard a stake was used to hunt count dracula .. but i'd rather go for a medium rare :smiley90:
  11. hmm how is the cross an idol? i know it is a common symbol . originally it was not a symbol because people knew how horrific a crucifixion was . i'm not sure how this would substantiate the church as the city in revelation though ..
  12. I dont know, dont wanna bag the cross by any means, not when it means so much to me.
    Because of what it represents that Jesus did for us.
    I still rather the crosses I wear, have Jesus on them too.
  13. oh yeah that . i forgot about that . hmm i think the rationale between the ones with Jesus on it . is to mean, He is not there, He is risen, as He said . that's how it lights on me .

    but if you want one with Jesus on . try a catholic bookstore . i think that would be a good place to go look .
  14. Well, the church does have some of the things of Babylon mentioned, I mean theres time for more to happen I guess.
    I dont think its a person tho, at all.
    I might go dab deeper in the history of the last 2000 years tonight, maybe some clues are there...

  15. Good morning Jesus LovesAll, :smiley90:

    The church, or much of the church, is still in "the city" but she herself isn't the city. The church....God's people....love Him and yet they allow themselves to be misled by wolves in sheep's clothing. Many stand at the pulpits each Sunday, or broadcast on television, or write books, or rewrite the Bible, or sit at keyboards on forums.

    Matthew 24:4-5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in My name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    The many named above "come in His name," saying they are Christ - Christian and they lie! So God's people, the church, are in the great city of Babylon, surrounded by deceivers and He wants us to "Come Out My People." Come out of the city, come out of confusion and deception for they are buying and selling our souls.

    Revelation 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.


  16. Good Morning Whirlwind,

    I have a cousin who interprets the above message to leave civilization altogether . but since my ministry is in the city and i happen to attend a fellowship which God seems bless people through my presence there and am also spiritually edified by meeting there .. so i came to the conclusion .. that word was more of a personal word and not for everyone . i know lots of people who stopped doing the sunday morning meeting a while ago . and there's no need for the . all that matters is we do what God leads us to do .

  17. You are a wise man Michael Collum. :smile_anim:

    We aren't to leave civilization...quite the contrary. We are to be here working! It doesn't matter if we are in a literal city or in the country, on a forum, in a church, in a home group...we are to plow, cultivate and plant seeds, to "do what God leads us to do." Then, we pray that fruit is produced for that part is up to God. Only He can accomplish that.

    I also agree with your assessment on the "Sunday morning meeting" where one sits on a pew to (often times..not always) listen to one or two lines of Scripture and an hour of blah, blah, blah. :sleeping

  18. I guess it's just finding a community of people who are on the same journey it really helps battle the Elijah complex . whatever form that community might take . the love of God begins at home, so always a good place to start . but even if it is not . God did say about Adam . that it is not good to be alone . so the same would apply to us all .

    stay blessed Whirlwind :)
  19. That makes great sense! love it.
    I would problay tend to agree here with what you have said and leave it at that.. cant pick a fault.


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