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Arguments Against Theistic Evolution

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by KingJ, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. #1 KingJ, Feb 10, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
    Creationist Christians are not driven by a hatred for science, but by a love for God and His word. We accept that scripture is not an encyclopedia of all there is to know but what it does state is inspired by God and cannot be ignored.

    2 Pet 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit and 2 Tim 3:16 / John 1:1 / John 14:26.

    Claims by evolution that oppose scripture require us to properly test it 1 John 4:1. So far there is not a single claim that does not require an element of faith.

    Theistic evolution (TE) as described by Francis Collins is 'the position that "evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God", and "Theistic evolution, which accepts that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God".

    True evolutionists cannot accept evolution is inspired by, or guided by God.

    I have prepared a short list of my arguments against TE:

    1. Jesus was planned before the foundations of the world for us. It took God billions of years of slow / cruel natural selection to put that plan in action?

    2. Scripture teaches a fundamental gap between humans and animals. Not a gradual transition from animal to man.

    - Adam was the first man. He cannot be a metaphor. He is mentioned repeatedly in scripture as a historical person Luke 3:23-38 / Rom 5:12-19. Text of his lineage places him at 4004 bc. Not the claimed 200 000 bc when the first fossils of modern man were found in Ethiopia.
    - Mankind was created just beneath the angels. Not evolved to a point beneath the angels.
    - Mankind was created in the image of God. Now we mixing an ape with the image of God? Adam never sought counsel when he fell from sin with his ape father. Adam never kept his ape father as a pet.
    - Eve miraculously evolved at the same time to be a fitting / accountable for sin wife?
    - Evolution will never teach that there were ever just two humans…which would then contradict not only Genesis but also Jesus in Matt 19:4.

    3. TE's believe God has a guiding hand in evolution. Evolution says no evidence and a TE's are forced to believe in an evil God responsible for terrible mutations and natural selection. As opposed to evil man who fell from grace and whose sin corrupted the earth.

    4. Repercussions of the fall of man. Evolution will never accept a time as described in the garden of Eden, before sin entered.

    Mankind had direct communion and fellowship with God. Mankind had no need to 'work the land', woman would have no pain in childbirth. Mankind went from good to bad in an instant. No evolving altruism.
    God looked at the earth and said ''It was good'' Gen 1:31. Would He have done that if there was cruel natural selection taking place?

    5. The soul. At which point in our evolution does the eternal soul enter the body?

    6. The Literality of the Bible and Other Myths.

    Giving parts or all of Genesis an allegorical interpretation, as required by TE, generates deeper problems. Is there any nonarbitrary, independent standard through which we can distinguish between allegorical and literal truths in the Bible? The Bible itself usually gives us no hint of how to decide between these two options. For example, did Jesus literally rise from the dead, or is the Resurrection story merely a metaphor for the political ascent of the poor? Since the text itself gives no indication that either the Resurrection story, the Flood narrative, or the Creation narrative are intended only allegorically, by letting in such sweeping allegorical interpretations, the believer removes the ground under his own feet. When an "sacred" history appears to be no history at all, only myth remains.

    From the temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden, the most effective way to undermine and destroy the Word of God is to question His Creation including the instructions He gave Adam when he was made. Satan was the first one to start this undermining of God’s Word and authority as recorded in Gen. 3:1 – He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”

    Conclusion: Give the devil your hand and he will come for your arm! Evolution is a sick child that atheists are forcing science to carry.

    Good articles for further reading: http://creationrevolution.com/2011/01/creation-compromises-–-the-gap-theory-theistic-evolution/

    This is meant as friendly discussion, not a debate. I will ask mods to remove sarcastic / heated replies.
  2. If TE were true and man evolved from lower lifeforms and Genesis was an allogorical account, I would expect it to read something like, "...and God took a rib from an ape and made man...". But man was created out of dirt, not previous life. And man received his life directly by the breath of God rather than having it handed down through one long chain of lower lifeforms.
  3. True. There is absolutely no wording in scripture that even hints of evolution.
  4. I for one, do not believe that a person can be a Christian and also accept evolution as the answer to how did we get here.
    I would also add the idea that "alians" were involved in creation is just as repulsive.
  5. I find the whole "aliens were involved" argument to be infuriating on several levels.
    The first being is that there is no reliable evidence whatsoever to support the notion of "aliens" being involved in anything.
    Second, saying that "life evolved elsewhere and was deposited here" is a blatant case of intellectually "kicking the can down the road". If you don't think that life developed independently here, why would you think it could do so somewhere else?
  6. I am novice in these areas.. I don't follow all these arguments.. One thing I always see is, scientists are good at coming up with theories.. But not facts and truth.. Theory and truth cannot be same.. The entire science is based on some very basis facts.. Speed of light being constant forever.. And no particle can travel faster than light.. I don't know how much it is going to take for the scientists to disagree on these and make all the academics as waste :) I was taught all through my childhood that there are 9 planets.. I memorized it so hard.. it did not take much to say there are only 8 planets.. Forget Pluto :)
  7. Lol :D.
  8. Kind of hypocritical to demand Science be a replacement for scripture instead of supplemental to, wouldn't you say?

    Why would God give us an empirical toolkit for examining his creation, if God did not want discoveries about it to be made?
    Silk likes this.
  9. Kind of blasphemous to demand a human theory be a complete replacement for God's word, wouldn't you say?
  10. When we get right down to the nitty gritty of evolution, the part that evolutionsionist do not want to discuss, the accepted science concerning the origins of life says that at some distant point in time, say 2 billion years ago, life miraculously appeared on the surface of the waters.

    Now what was the form that it took???............."Science can not specify"!

    What science says according to their own words is that ...........
    "Through some agency certain giant molecules acquired the ability to duplicate themselves".

    Now, if you are an evolutionist, and you are placing your eternal existance on that kind of thinking......May the Lord bless you!
    You in fact have more faith than I have when I say I believe that God created all things in His own time.

    A leading evolututionist, Dr. Hermanert Spencer gave an explination many years ago on evolution and said...........................

    "An integration of matter and concomitant dissipation of motion during which the matter passes from an indifinite , incoherent, homogeneity to a definate, coherent heterogeneity and furing which the retained motion undergoes a parallel transformation".

    Now, ponder that for a while!
  11. It seems to me that there are 3 essential areas into which evolution cannot move and cannot solve.

    Evolution cannot bridge the gap from nothing to something.

    Evolution cannot bridge the gap from something to life.

    Evolution can not then bridge the gap between life and "humanity", that is ......self concious human life with a free will to choose.

    What are your thoughts on these?
  12. Big bang theory is like this thing we do for kids.. When little kids keep on asking for something (like cellphone), we just all of a sudden take it away and hide it.. They will get surprised looking for it! When they ask where it is.. We simply say "that bird took it away and it's gone".. Big bang is just like this.. When you can't explain how things came into existence, the explanation is big bang! Boom..
  13. Creationism isn't God's word. It is God's word twisted by uneducated humans.
  14. I would be careful applying that same logic to your own beliefs, especially since nowhere in the theory is God denied or ruled out of the equation.
  15. Are you saying big bang is biblical?
  16. Are you saying big bang is biblical?
  17. Can TE's please try answer these two questions.

    1. Show me the devolution / evolution of my tail / wings / gills / toes / teeth...anything that will enable me to survive my surroundings.

    Consider this: 1. Take the flatworm, 550 million years ago (http://en.wikipedia....human_evolution). 2. Acknowledge that humans are unchanged for the last 2000 (evolution says 30k) years minimum. now 3. take 550 000 000 / 2 000 and 30k = 275 000 and 18 333.

    Show me 1/18 333 or 1/275 000 scale evolution.... on par with the variances between me and a flatworm...taking place right now.

    2. Show me how evolution explains the trillions x close to infinity amounts of missing links.

    Consider this: Getting the winning 6 numbers of the lotto when we have 1-49 numbers has odds of 1/14 000 000 http://en.wikipedia....ery_mathematics.

    Now, how many particles came from the big bang? Whether 1 became 10, 10 became 100 onto trillions or 1 became trillions, fact is trillions of particles is our range to select winning numbers from. But let’s use simply 1 million.

    So, let’s take a working cell like the Flagello motor. How many particles / parts would you say are needed for the paddle, rudder and motor? Let’s say 5 each. So we are looking for 15 winning numbers in a range of 1 million. The odds of that are 1/ 764 636 081 790 093 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000.

    Now, simply because you say you believe in theistic evolution, does not mean the odds of a new part evolving change.

    Now, let’s move on to species...where the odds multiply even further. If we had 1 000 particles to work from and wanted simply 15 winning particles to make something...the odds are 1/677 818 915 529 483 000 000 000 000 000 000. Now in a species we have differing winning combinations of numbers joined. Basically that big number above now becomes the 'n' in the formulae. Not to say all will be species but the possibilities of new species becomes a number beyond 'excels ability' to calculate. Where are all the missing species?
  18. Actually, it does say, pretty clearly, no twists necessary, that God created the universe. As you have already noted, when scientists get it right, their finds corroborate this truth. It is just that they are so very far behind the truth or understanding of the universe that causes problems. Only now, have most scientists gotten to a degree where they acknowledge there has to be a Designer.
  19. Evolution cannot co-exist with God's word as it mocks....

    1. God, by suggesting He is evil.... as billions of years of cruel natural selection = evil. Anyone who knows scripture knows that all evil is traced to mankind and fallen angels.

    2. The cross. Accountability evolving.

    3. All scripture. If mankind is 30k / 200k ago our bible that teaches we are 4000 / 5500bc old is merely a recent / most popular compilation of religious dogma / myth. Making Abraham (2100 bc) an utter joke. Why not select someone 198k bc?

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