Are Christians willfully ignorant?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Brother_Mike_V, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. Maybe it’s just me; but it seems the majority of ‘western’ Christians are willfully ignorant of the effect that the occult has on society?

    If we do talk about it is becomes 'conspiracy', ‘extremism’ or you get labeled as straight up crazy.

    How is it that Christians ignore Pagan / heathen / idol worship that is thrown in our faces? From Jay Z to Madonna, from Disney to cults, all the symbolism that we are engulfed in and yet Christians never stop and point out the wickedness of it.

    How is it we ignore all the statues and symbols that are everywhere from ancient Egypt to the back of the US Dollar bill? It has become so in your face that I don’t think that they are trying to hide it anymore. So Pagan gods are okay in the name of ‘multiculturalism’ right?

    I don’t get it….

    Maybe there aren’t that many ‘Christians’ after all?


    Exodus 20:
    2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
    3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
    4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
    5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
    6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    Attached Files:

  2. There is not too much in the way of insult to me personally with the things mentions above, as I guard my "eye gate" and "ear gate", and am rarely in a place or position to be exposed to such vile nonsense. That is the case with many, many Christians. So...yes there are millions of us, and we can walk through life without feeling insulted and assaulted by ever-increasing sickness of the world we live in, and yet still not be Pollyanna-ish about it.
  3. This is part of the great deception from 2 Thessalonians 2:11. The devil has desensitized many believers so that they are unable to do their part in praying, and acting or walking in God's ways. The church has the love part right, but they have sacrificed or compromised Righteousness, Holiness, and sanctification. I mean how many people do you know who would rather the Word of God take a back seat then to stand up for what they know the Bible says is true? How many people watch hours and hours of tv, but have no room for reading the Word of God, and wonder why thier life is a mess and their bodies are sick?

    Thanks for the thread. I do agree that we need to pray for boldness and integrity, when it comes to the Word of God and honoring His ways. Its time to stand up for God and not be afraid of not being accepted by the world. There is a way to walk in God's love towards others without compromising our beliefs and what the Bible says. It's sad to see that many believers do not realize that we will all be held accountaboe for things like abortion remaining legal and perverted marriage. ..etc. because the body of Christ is not putting away their divisions and fleshly pleasures, to join together and pray for the wrong things to be corrected in this earth. When God created people...He gave us dominion in this world. Adam gave it to the devil, and Jesus bought it back with His Blood. And to many have not chosen to take their place in doing what God has placed before us to do, most do not know what their God given authority and responsibility is. To many just want to pass the buck when things go wrong. Saying it's not my fault, and then blame it on God. Same thing that the therapists encourage today. Very sad. I pray that the Body will wake up soon.

    Euphemia and Grant Melville say Amen and like this.
  4. I think we are mostly naïve to the symbolism. But not to the words they use in their songs or pappa smurfs wizardry. It is a case of not straining a gnat.

    1 Cor 5:9-11 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
  5. Well... it's just the world, isn't it? It's suffused with what's evil and opposed to God, and that infiltrates every aspect of the world's system. I don't think we should be surprised when we find that things in the world are mixed. As James says, "Out of the same mouth goes forth blessing and cursing. It is not right, my brethren, that these things should be thus. Does the fountain, out of the same opening, pour forth sweet and bitter? Can, my brethren, a fig produce olives, or a vine figs? Neither can salt water make sweet water." (James 3:10-12). The world is appealing, nonetheless, as we all know. Worldly things have a certain attraction. We won't be able to overcome that attraction by focusing on everything that's wrong with the world and spotting the evil that lurks in seemingly innocent things. The world can only be displaced in our hearts by occupation with Christ. By gazing on Him, our sight is lifted from the pleasures of Eygpt and the trials of the wilderness - we get a new Object. Only then are worldly things going to lose their attraction and drop off in our estimation. @Brother Mike V, you ask if Christians are wilfully ignorant. I can only speak for myself, but at times I have been wilfully ignorant. I've chosen to ignore the fact that the world is corrupting and defiling, and getting mixed up with it can only harm me. I've asked, too often, "What harm can it do?" when I should've asked "What good can it do?". As a result, I've become mixed up, like James describes, and as he says, "It is not right... that these things should be thus". If I'd been "looking stedfastly on Jesus the leader and completer of faith" (Hebrews 12:2) then other things wouldn't've caught my eye. That's the great positive side of this truth though: we don't need be occupied with the world in order to overcome it. Occupation with Jesus is what empowers us to be overcomers.
  6. Lets not drag ourselves into legalism.... Let's not draw all sorts of lines here and there saying "You can't do this and you can't do that"...

    Romans 14 seems applicable here... If it really bothers you - then stay away from it... But - don't condemn those who view all of it as just stuff with no other connotation to idolatry or whatever else.... "Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him."

    The danger is that when you see the world that way - you end up painting yourself into smaller and smaller corners.. You end up wringing your hands all the time in worry. If you want to see how that ends up - go look at the Ultra-orthodox Jews.... They live a in a self-imposed prison out of fear of unintentionally stumbling into some sort of sin that they don't even know anything about.

    The danger is that this denies both Grace AND that our God is Greater and has overcome the world. That in the process of being SENT out into the world - we are forced to experience THE WORLD.... We are sent out into the mud and the muck... We can try to hide ourselves from it, but that's not God's command - it's to go be OUT there IN the world to shine our light and to show them that there is a better way.....

    As such - it can be very helpful to INTENTIONALLY view the stuff as just stuff... To intentionally view all the occultish stuff as foolishness.... The ways of the world as unproductive and dangerous ways of doing harm to people and as paths only leading to unhappiness, unfulfullment, frustration, fear, confusion, and anger....

    As such - willfully "Ignorant" may actually be a good term... because we are IGNORING these things intentionally.... It's not a LACK of knowledge, but an intentional decision that they are worthless and should be treated as such.

  7. The Cabbage

    Ultra Truth (AKA: Legalism):

    The cabbage may only be grown and purchased from Christian owned fields. Ensure that the cabbage has not been harvested on the Sabbath day and that only Christian hands have touched the cabbage. If the cabbage is in any way contaminated; the cabbage must be destroyed by ritual means and is not to be consumed. The person destroying the cabbage will be unclean for 3 days and will need to reside outside of their home during that time as not to contaminate anyone or anything else. The cabbage can only be eaten raw in the form God intended. Eating of the cabbage in other form will be considered blasphemy. Etc….

    Ultra Grace (AKA: Liberal contemporary church)

    It doesn’t matter where the cabbage came from; it’s about how you feel about the cabbage. Make the cabbage as decadent as you want as long as it makes you feel good. Because if it makes you feel good, it must be holy! If you put the cabbage on a pedestal; honor the cabbage as God would have honored creation. If you currently worship the cabbage, we will give you enough grace to wait until you learn that cabbage worship is wrong. Etc…

    Grace AND Truth IN Love: (Common sense, wisdom, knowledge and seeking truth through the Holy Spirit and Scripture)

    Look at this cabbage: what is the purpose of this cabbage? God created it as meat (food) for man (humans) to enjoy. So thank God for the cabbage, give God the due respect for thinking of the cabbage to help sustain man. Remember that the cabbage fulfills God’s purpose in sustaining LIFE! But don’t worship the cabbage-it IS SIN! Worship the God of the cabbage lest His wrath come upon you. Judge what is the right way for you to partake in the cabbage: but neither cause your brother to fall or partake in your brother’s sin with the cabbage. Etc…
  8. *Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    *2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

    Showing love to others includes: knowing what is good or evil; giving them the truth AND having grace to rebuke another without causing sin in our own lives or theirs….

    Never is disobedience condoned by God for believers…

    (*Please don't give me a lengthy post about using verses out of context-if we use our brains we can apply what is being said to our daily problem solving using Scripture.)
  9. So maybe the questions should be:

    Do proclaimed 'Christians' who cannot discern evil from good have the Holy Spirit?


    Do we treat believers and unbelievers differently when rebuking sin? (I think yes)
  10. Thank you all for your input by the way....
  11. Good one. If we know who we are in Christ, we don't have to insulate ourselves from the world, because we know that God is with us and He has called us the light of the world, and the salt of the earth. The world NEEDS u---carriers of His light and should be both willing and able to speak the truth of the gospel of grace to a lost and hurting world. Our words are like salt to the disease-ravaged, sin-encumbered people around us: salt that stings, but also cleans wounds, and purifies.
  12. I think this is a good topic for several separate discussions.....

    Question 1: I think this is can be a very slippery slope to answer because of the power of deception, sin, and willful ignorance as well as simple questions of interpretation...
    Am I willing to condemn/write off Dietrich Bonhoeffer because of his involvement with assassination plans and plots against Adolph Hitler? Is it right to question whether that man was "Spirit filled" - even though Jesus condemned violent revolt and it was apparent that no weapon brought against Hitler could prosper for a time (because God allowed that evil to prosper for a time).....
    What about all the good, born again Christians who died in WWI fighting against other good born again Christians.... Do we condemn all them?

    This isn't an easy black and white type question....

    Question 2:
    Yes - because there is a different focus on the intended result inside vs outside the church... Outside the church - "Repentance" based upon moral fortitude and strength of character without God means nothing. An important part of the "Mission" focus outside the church is to get people to simply acknowledge/recognize their own sin and that only God has the power to save them from it... The intended outcome is for them to desire to come to God and to know Jesus - not primarily to foster a desire within them to reject their bad behavior without God... AKA - we aren't preaching moralism, social responsibility, and ethics....

    Within the church, a focus needs to be on helping our fellows repent and overcome OUT of sin they are trapped in.... The role of a Shepherd isn't to let the sheep who don't want to cooperate run loose and die.... It's not to turn a blind shoulder and ignore the sheep that are running away and being lost.... Neither is the Shepherd's job to run off all the sheep...

    In the end - the focus has to be on the end results... Within the church, that goal is our brothers and sisters stuck in sin repenting and overcoming AND increasing their Maturity in Christ... Outside the church - it's that unbelievers would have a deep desire to know God.....


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