Are all Muslims troublemakers?

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You kinda have to feel sorry for the Moslems. There they are with a religious text that preaches hate and murder, and most of them would rather just live their lives in peace.
The Quran leaves three options for dealing with non-Moslems:
1. Conversion to Islam
2. Living as a 3rd class citizen and paying the infidel tax (which can be a princely sum)
3. Death

I would say that modern times have dealt out more death and destruction than any of the tyrants of the past could have hoped for.
The period 1935 to 1950 had more than 60 million die due to wars and persecutions by governments.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I would agree, but unfortunately I think there are Christians who put a bad face on Christianity by their actions just as there are Muslims who put a bad face on Islam by their actions. We are quite quick to point out that the KKK and the Westboro Baptists are fringe lunatics who do not represent the central message of Christianity, but should we not extend that same courtesy to Muslims?
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I think the fact that our Lord does not promote violence/hatred/persecution gives us the right to point out people who claim Christianity, but who do not follow His teachings, as not representing the central message. However, how can we extend that same "courtesy" to Muslims when, in fact, their founder, Muhammad DOES mandate they perform jihad/persecution/hatred? The Muslims who commit such violence ARE acting according to their "prophet". They absolutely ARE behaving in a manner which represents the central message of Islam.
 
KingJ said:
Islam, is a good religion (if you exclude all the commands to kill infidels). Muslims don't go to hell because they Muslim. They go to hell because they ignore Jesus knocking on the door to their heart. Being Muslim is proof that they are currently ignoring Him. So I don't completely disagree with you.
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What about the verses that allow men to take child-brides and consummate their marriages before the bride turns 9 yrs old? And what about the verses that tell men to beat their wives if they do not obey their husband? The science promoted in the Koran is notoriously inaccurate, as well as the creation accounts given by Muhammad.

I don't know, KingJ. I am troubled with your statement that Islam is a good religion. Are you saying that if a Muslim accepts Jesus into their heart but continue on in the Muslim faith, that they will go to Heaven, if they don't observe the violent mandates in their Koran?
 
C1oudwatch3r said:
What about the verses that allow men to take child-brides and consummate their marriages before the bride turns 9 yrs old? And what about the verses that tell men to beat their wives if they do not obey their husband? The science promoted in the Koran is notoriously inaccurate, as well as the creation accounts given by Muhammad.

I don't know, KingJ. I am troubled with your statement that Islam is a good religion. Are you saying that if a Muslim accepts Jesus into their heart but continue on in the Muslim faith, that they will go to Heaven, if they don't observe the violent mandates in their Koran?
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My problem with this is how over the years we as humans have "sanitized" Muhammned to make him and his religion more acceptable to humanity.

The history is very clear and very easy to find. Now you can go to 100 web sites but back in the day before home computers we had to go to the schools library to find out the truth.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I would agree, but unfortunately I think there are Christians who put a bad face on Christianity by their actions just as there are Muslims who put a bad face on Islam by their actions. We are quite quick to point out that the KKK and the Westboro Baptists are fringe lunatics who do not represent the central message of Christianity, but should we not extend that same courtesy to Muslims?
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I think I need to clarify that I don't hate individual Muslims...I hate their religion. However, due to Mohammad's teaching of taqiyyah, I am suspicious of individual Muslims until I see proof of their integrity.
 
calvin said:
The things that were done a long time ago might not be what we would promote today, but those who were there at the time obviously saw things differently., so why judge as though it was today?
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With regards to the Christian acts: I think most of us would hold that the bible has been a constant throughout the ages and I've seen it often cited as being a reliable guide to what is right and wrong. My own take is that these people were not acting in accordance with the bible and that bad things have happend in the name of Christianity.

The only alternative I'm seeing just at the moment would be to believe that (perhaps depending on the era) the bible could be reasonably be used for example to justify burning at the stake for heresy but I find that idea very worrying.
 
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Major said:
I understand what you are saying but IMO--- NO. Westboro and KKK are not Christian organizations because not every one professing Christ is genuinely a saved believer in Christ, if any at all. Christians do not do what those organizations promote.

Adolf Hitler was said to be a Catholic believer. He was raised as Catholic he went to a monastery school and, interestingly. As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest. Much of his philosophy came from the Bible, and more influentially, from the Christian Social movement. Do YOU believe that He was a Christian by his actions that killed 50 million people???

The actions of these two you mentioned are not in any way Christian actions and I firmly believe that Jesus will reject them on judgment day.
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I don't think that Westboro or the KKK are Christian organizations either. And Hitler could be lumped in with these people too, people whose understanding of Christianity is skewed and warped, despite what they might wish to label themselves as.

My question is why we would not look at the few murderous Muslims also given as examples and likewise say they are not representative of Islam either, but a few bad apples misrepresenting their faith?
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I don't think that Westboro or the KKK are Christian organizations either. And Hitler could be lumped in with these people too, people whose understanding of Christianity is skewed and warped, despite what they might wish to label themselves as.

My question is why we would not look at the few murderous Muslims also given as examples and likewise say they are not representative of Islam either, but a few bad apples misrepresenting their faith?
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Do you recognize that Islam promotes what the few bad apples are doing?
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I don't think that Westboro or the KKK are Christian organizations either. And Hitler could be lumped in with these people too, people whose understanding of Christianity is skewed and warped, despite what they might wish to label themselves as.

My question is why we would not look at the few murderous Muslims also given as examples and likewise say they are not representative of Islam either, but a few bad apples misrepresenting their faith?
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But who in Islam is standing up and yelling and DEMANDING that there be an end to this silly jihad of killing innocent humans and for what reason.

When the Westboro nut cases show up to demonstrate, they are out numbered 100 to 1.

Personally, and I am not elderly and live in the deep south, I have never seen but one KKK demonstration and it was 20 years ago and they were almost killed by those who came to watch them.
 
Major said:
But who in Islam is standing up and yelling and DEMANDING that there be an end to this silly jihad of killing innocent humans and for what reason.
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Mohammad taught that it is a sin to kill innocents. Then he says all Muslims are innocent but the infidels are guilty. Their mind-set is that it is NOT a sin to kill infidels (anyone non-Muslim) because they are not innocents. If you want proof of this out of the horse's mouth, I can refer you to a YouTube link of a major mainstream news network interviewing a well-known modern Islamic cleric/politician.
 
Major said:
But who in Islam is standing up and yelling and DEMANDING that there be an end to this silly jihad of killing innocent humans and for what reason.

When the Westboro nut cases show up to demonstrate, they are out numbered 100 to 1.

Personally, and I am not elderly and live in the deep south, I have never seen but one KKK demonstration and it was 20 years ago and they were almost killed by those who came to watch them.
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ooops...sorry Major...I meant that last post for PeaceLikeaRiver
 
Major said:
But who in Islam is standing up and yelling and DEMANDING that there be an end to this silly jihad of killing innocent humans and for what reason.
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I really couldn't answer that, but everything I read online indicates that most of the Muslims abhor what is going on. Maybe we're looking in different places though. I don't say this to stick up for Muslims, more to point out that no one likes having their faith misrepresented by radicals.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
According to whom? Certainly not the Muslims I encounter.
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According to Muslim clerics and Mohammad himself. The Muslims you may be encountering may be practicing taquiyya (deceit about their faith and its intentions) in the face of possible persecution. You have to admit that if they admitted that killing infidels is not a sin to them, they would face persecution here in America.

I accidently posted a response meant for you to Major's name. If you are interested in the information there, I will post it for you.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I really couldn't answer that, but everything I read online indicates that most of the Muslims abhor what is going on. Maybe we're looking in different places though. I don't say this to stick up for Muslims, more to point out that no one likes having their faith misrepresented by radicals.
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Please read about taqiyya and what it means, PLAR...this is a mainstream belief/practice in the Islamic faith and I hope you will at least give the ramifications of it some thought.
 
C1oudwatch3r said:
Please read about taqiyya and what it means, PLAR...this is a mainstream belief/practice in the Islamic faith and I hope you will at least give the ramifications of it some thought.
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All right, I've read about it, and it doesn't seem to be as mainstream as you say. The term taqiyya does not exist in Sunni jurisprudence at all. I think the entire faith would be disallowed in the US if all Muslims were thought to be violent and criminal.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
All right, I've read about it, and it doesn't seem to be as mainstream as you say. The term taqiyya does not exist in Sunni jurisprudence at all. I think the entire faith would be disallowed in the US if all Muslims were thought to be violent and criminal.
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It does exist in Sunni jurisprudence. Right now the Sunni outnumbers the Shi-ite and it is not necessary to practice taqiyya in those countries. When the Sunnis are outnumbered, they do practice it. And it is practiced by them here in America as well.

Because of our Constitution, America cannot disallow any faith. Hence, we welcome them - taqiyya and all.

Maybe the website you visited to read about taqiyya presents it differently. Is it possible there is an agenda behind it?
Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
I think this verse means that we should research a matter on both sides before making a conclusion about it.
 
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