Are all Muslims troublemakers?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Inseparable, Sep 27, 2014.

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  1. Why are Muslims fond of "jihad" or religious battle? I think Christians are not; they just do their own way.
    Ghid likes this.
  2. Most are not. This is honest. Most just want to live their lives. Jihad simply means struggle in the way of God. In this, a Muslim struggles against their own ego, considered the highest jihad.

    There is extremism, exemplified by the disease of literalism and ignorance, where a few use the ignorance of people to gain power to themselves. It ignores the majority of the teachings, in order to concentrate on one thing, and one thing only. Power.

    It's very sad, but I see Islam as going through something right now - when she rises above it, it will be a much different thing than what you see today. These are the birth pains of the 21st century for Muslims.

    I believe in Christianity went through something similar some time ago. She is just 600 years older. So her pains are gone now. Muslims' are just beginning.
    Aamir Bozdar and Inseparable say Amen and like this.
  3. I don`t believe muslims as a whole to be "troublemakers". Not at all. What I know (which is not much, just talking with a few of my muslim friends) Muslim as a religion is a religion of love and peace as well. However, Qua-ran can be interpreted in man ways, just like bible can. I don`t believe the interpretation of war and destruction to be the right way, just as I don`t believe that even though some verses of old testament speak about stoning people to death, higlighting and acting upon those verses is the right way.
    As to why some Muslims interpret the Qua-ran in such a destructive way, I don`t know. I believe there is some deep old cultural ways. And the fact that the middle east is war ridden at the moment plays part. But I do not know enough to say why it is so.
    Aamir Bozdar and Inseparable say Amen and like this.
  4. This topic is being monitored for content and for any rules violations regarding the demeaning of any organization, group or culture. Please use proper behavior in this thread topic.

    Inseparable likes this.
  5. "Jihad" means struggle (inner spiritual and/or the outer struggle to conquer the world to make it "submit" to Allah). Muslims are mandated by their prophet to do both in order to conquer the world for the cause of Allah.

    When Muslims insist that Islam is a religion of peace, I often wonder why the peaceful Muslims do not speak out more against the violence being committed around the world in the name of Allah.

    I have read that when Muslims mean Islam is peaceful, they actually mean when Islam has conquered the world (through violence if necessary), to make Islam the world religion, we will have peace. I also suspect that many Muslims do not speak out against the violence due to the fact they fear for their own lives which would, in fact, be endangered if they spoke out too loudly.
    Inseparable and Major say Amen and like this.
  6. I agree with that.

    It is clear that Christianity is a religion of FAITH and Islam is a religion of FORCE.
    autumn oddity and Inseparable say Amen and like this.
  7. From Dr. Moorthy Muthuswamy......
    “About sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of the unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. About seventy-five percent of Muhammad’s biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers.”
    Inseparable likes this.
  8. Speaking of "Jihad" and the violence we see, I wonder if we need to read about WHY in the Scriptures. There is actually a reason IMO.

    Genesis 16:12 is speaking of Ismael, the illegitimate son of Abraham and Hagar and says he.........English Standard Version (ESV)
    12 "He shall be a wild donkey of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him,
    and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.”

    The idiom and context here and confirmed in Genesis 25:18 and proved by Deut. 21:16 denote a hostility on the part of Ishmael and his descendants against his brethren, so we really should not be surprised because history proves this to be the case.
    Inseparable likes this.
  9. I will have to disagree with your comment Chris1. In trying to follow the rules of the forum so that we have no conflict, I would like to post some scriptures from the book of the Quran which All Muslims follow. In this why I am using the own words of Muhammad in order to disagree with your thoughts on Muslims. Now this goes back some 1500 years so I think "birth pains" can be eliminated.

    “O believers make war on the infidels (non-Muslims) who dwell around you, let them find harshness in you” - Quran 9:123
    “When the sacred months are over, kill the unbelievers wherever you find them” – Quran 9:5
    “Fight them until unbelief is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme” - Q 2:193
    “Fight against those of the book (Christians and Jews) as believe neither in Allah nor in the last day…and do not embrace the true faith” - Q 9:29
    “Fighting is obligatory for you (Muslims), even if you dislike it” - Q 2:216
    “Do you think you would enter Paradise before Allah knows the men who fought hard and steadfast?” – Q 3:142
    “Believers take neither Jews nor Christians for friends or helpers” - Q 5:51
    “Let not the believers take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers.” - Q 3:28.

    “Our Prophet ordered us to fight you (non-Muslims) till you worship Allah alone or pay us Jizyah (extortion) in submission…Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise…and whoever survives shall become your master” – Sahih Bukhari 4:53:386

    “Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…” - Sahih Muslim 19:4294

    These violent injunctions in Islamic scriptures (Quran and Hadith) clearly promote hostility and aggression towards non-Muslims, and largely explain Muslim proclivity to religious violence.

    The violent injunctions can be traced to Islam’s violent origins and not some kind of "birth pains". Unlike the founders of other major religions who mostly relied on non-violent persuasion to win converts, Islam’s founder “prophet” Mohammed used violence to forcefully impose his intolerant creed in Arabia.

    Since these are all foundational truths proved in the Quran and actual history, I do not think this breaks the rules.
    Inseparable likes this.
  10. #10 Chris1, Sep 27, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
    I didn't come here for this.

    I'll leave.
  11. I respect your opinion. We have also Muslims here, but they seem to be isolated and aloof to Christians.
  12. I respect your opinion.
  13. Thanks for sharing something from the Quran.
  14. I respect your opinion.
  15. It is an unfortunate part of Islamic tradition for religious leaders to be chiefs of the state as well. Muhammad himself was a politician after his "revelations". So, unfortunately, you get a lot of theocratic, Islamic republics pop up which tend to base their legal system of Shariah law.

    That being said, while a large number of Islamic states often engender sectarian violence and religious war, the vast majority of Muslims themselves are non-violent. And even Islamic states (while sometimes brutish--though to be fair, not as brutish as even some Christians advocate) are not usually inherently violent. Saudi Arabia is an important ally of the US. So is Jordan, and the United Arab Emirates. Even Iran, prior to the revolution in 1980 was a fairly westernized state.

    The fact of the matter is that if it were true that Muslims were all trouble makers and inherently violent, the world would be in utter chaos as they constitute about a third of the world's population.

    Shi'ites, (I'm not 100%, but I believe they are the more populous branch of Islam) follow Ayatollahs for guidence of religious matters. Most of the popular ones sound quite similar to any highly orthodox pastor or rabbi.

    This is directed to Ali al-Sistani, one of the more prominent Grand Ayatollahs.

    Question: What is Grand Ayatollah Sistani's opinion about Wilayat-e Faqih (governance of jurist)?
    Answer: Every jurisprudent (Faqih) has wilayah (guardianship) over non-litigious affairs. Non-litigious affairs are called "al-omour al-hesbiah". As for general affairs to which social order is linked, wilayah of a Faqih and enforcement of wilayah depend on certain conditions one of which is popularity of Faqih among majority of momeneen.
  16. It would not be that difficult for someone to quote a dozen scriptures from the Bible that would make Christians seem like nasty people. Things like genocide. I think you really have to look at how the establishment interprets the Koran as a whole in order to make a judgment on the faith. You will find that most Islamic clergy has reasonable, albeit very pious, beliefs about most life issues.
    Huntingteckel likes this.
  17. Greetings:

    All unregenerated folks are troublemakers.Saved folks are on the road to recovery and become less and less TXoubXemaXeXs.

  18. That is of course your opinion. I have to disagree with you as I have never witnessed a Catholic priest beheading a Muslim believer.
    When I do, I am sure I will change my thinking.
  19. Are you speaking to the actual words written in the Quran? Just wanting clarification.

    Are you leaving because I posted the words in the Muslim bible which gives them direction in life and them seem to be following those direction?

    Should we ignore such things and pretend that all is ell and no one is being killed in the name of allah?
  20. #20 Chris1, Sep 28, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
    I can find hatred ignorance and lies anywhere. I can fight with anyone about how "evil" all Muslims are.

    Was there ever a time in Christian history people were being killed in God's name? Yes. Is it right? NO. Does God advocate such things? NO.

    You pick one verse out of the Quran, without looking at ALL the other verses that pertain to that topic. The Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years. Every single verse is surrounded with the facts of the history concerning its revelation. This means, each time a verse was revealed, something particular was happening then to warrants its revelation.

    You pick a verse from the Quran without knowing the history behind it, and you isolate from the other verses on the same topic, and judge it alone. Not you, nor anyone else, can do this and ever have even the slightest inkling what it meant or how to interpret it today, right now.

    Because different situations today, will warrant different interpretations for today... because it is situational to specific situations. Should those same situations repeat, then it will go back into effect, should the situation not repeat, then it is null at this time.

    You go to hate sites and think you know Islam, instead of going to Muslims who know what the Quran teaches who will sit and explain it to you.

    THIS ignorance and hatred will cause WW3. You want to have WW3 you can go right ahead. Your leaders want you to want it, the people spreading hate want you to want it..

    and no one is telling you the truth about it, and you don't care enough about the truth to actually find it. Because if you did we wouldn't have a need for this conversation.

    Not only that, but I didn't come to this site to fight for Islam, I came to this site to learn about Christianity. So what am I fighting about Islam for? This is stupid.

    PS. Concerning Bukhari and Muslim. You would need to understand the sciences of ahadith and know all your narrators in any given hadith before you can quote from it. Narrators are the people in a hadith who told it to another person.

    If any of those people were known liars, the hadith itself is weakened because there is a known liar in the chain of narrators.

    Abu Huraira is one of the narrators in Bukhari and Muslim who narrated many many many hadith. Well over 5,000 narrated with him in the chain in those two books of hadith. And guess what... he was a known liar, who admited to lying, which is also right there in Bukhair and Muslim.

    See, he was a beggar, who made up ahadith in order to get people to give him money and food and stuff.. the things a beggar begs for. And he made up "sayings" of the Prophet, in order for material gain. And he is the one who told us this!

    So... watch what you believe about Muslims.... there is usually another story somewhere in there. And actually looking for the truth is important.

    But... since I was raised as such a trouble maker... I'll go.
    Aamir Bozdar, Jfish and Huntingteckel says Amen and like this.
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