Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Jasher, Sep 4, 2007.
Apostles Drank Wine?
Did the Apostles and Disciples drink real wine or just grape Juice?
There are a variety of opinions on this- I believe it was indeed wine- Paul mentions to Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach- the scripture does not tell us not to drink but to "be not drunk but be ye filled"- that being said I lost all desire to drink, drug or any of the things that marked my messed up life before Jesus- one good look at my Lord and I simply was't interested in those things anymore!
Agree - Wine but lightly fermented
Wine - as it did have some alcohol from a light fermentation process. Nothing like the science that goes into producing Mad Dog and others today.
My experience with the drug - and yes it is a drug - is a sad tale, but part of my story. They say if you provide alcohol to 100 people only a small percentage will develop a dependency. For me it was a reliance on God that removed that from me, and I give Him all the praise. Many struggle with this issue, as in today's society drinking has become so accepted. Of course the billions in tv advertisements had something to do with that.
I know many Christians who stick firmly to the teaching not to become drunk with wine. Many do this sucessfully and never have any troubles as a result. I was unable to do that, and choose to no longer take a drink. Remember, it is the first drink that gets you drunk.
Hi Skratch welcome and thanks for that testimony- another reason I don't drink is to " obstain even from the appearance of evil" and I would always like to err on the side of caution rather than " cause my brother to stumble"- have an awesome day in His presence- your brother Larry
eph 5:18 word for wine do not be drunk with wine
is the same every where...
Lightly Fermented??? How in the world do you know? Have you found the wine stash from back in Jesus's days? If you have let me know!
To add a little further the bible says wine. It dosent say lightly fermented or highly fermented it simply says wine. What the big deal with Jesus and them drinking wine I dont know. The bible dosent say it is a sin to drink it is a sin to become a drunkard. But exactly what the line is that you cross over into drunkardness IDK so it best to just stear clear. Although I will admit I like a glass of wine every once in a blue moon.
Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Matthew 9:16-18 (in Context) Matthew 9 (Whole Chapter)
The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Matthew 11:18-20 (in Context) Matthew 11 (Whole Chapter)
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Matthew 21:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 21 (Whole Chapter)
I have heard that one person in ten is vulnerable to the addiction of drink. Alcoholism really riddled my mothers family in the 40's and 50's.
The denomination of my youth (AOG) went to great effort to try to prove that the people in the New Testament only drank grape juice (Sweet Wine) and not fermented wine. The historical record indicates otherwise. The yeast that caused the fermentation was already active on the grapes before they were even pressed by foot in an ancient winepress. So it was impossible to keep the juice from fermenting. The hot climate of that area also accelerated the process as well. Grape juice as we know it was only possible for probably a day or two. So, they drank real wine so far as I know.
However, there are also extenuating historical circumstances. For example: It was really taboo to be a drunkard in the Jewish culture of that day - there was a lot of social pressure to abstain from excess. Also, the custom of that day was to mix one to two parts water with the wine, which diluted it down significantly. Some say that the water was bad, which precipitated this practice. This diluted wine was traditionally drunk with meals, which further reduces the effect of the alcohol.
For sure you cannot equate first century practices with ours today. Today we have distilleries, which can raise the alcohol concentration to almost pure alcohol. There is excessive abuse of concentrated alcoholic beverages today in this country. This is why I think that the Church almost always chooses to use grape juice in communion out of consideration for children and people who have had drinking problems at some point in their lives. Abstinence is a Church tradition that developed in this country due to the destructive and excessive practices extant in our culture. I think those who abstain for this reason have good motives as long as it doesnâ€™t degrade into legalism. But neither is it wrong to drink in the same manner as Jesus and his disciples had done in their culture.
for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.
I think the only reason they drank wine was because the water in that day was not pure. But they did not drink in excess. Just my two cents.
Scriptural Technical Information
Scriptural Technical Information:
The word 'Wine' is found in the "Authorized KIng James Version Bible of 1611", 230 times. By far, the most frequent usage of the word 'wine' comes from Hebrew word pronounced in English as "yayin" - which means "a fermented beverage" as found in Proverbs 31:4-7 and referenced in Genesis 9:24.
There are several other Hebrew and Greek word origins including a Greek word which is pronounced in English as "oinos"... also refering to a 'femented beverage' as found, for instance in Luke 5:37, Mark 2:22 and Matthew 9:17, just to name a few.
For specific word usages by chapter and verse, use the search tool listed below for specific 'wine' research... use the Strong's Number Search Tool block to obtain the Strong's Word Number for either Hebrew or Greek - Then Use the Number in the block just below it and select 'Hebrew' for Old Testament Research or 'Greek' for New Testament Research. Enjoy your studies.
Brother Larry..... I tend to lean towards your thinking. I don't drink because I have seen it's ill effects when some one who is a weak Christian starts out thinking it isn't harmful and little by little satan gets them to take more and more saying to themselves ..... "it's ok". nope for me I will abstain..... Thanks but no thanks.
Thankyou also Pastor Gary for the Technical Information. I'll take all the help I can get . LOL.
"We are not drunk as you suppose"- the implication was that if they drank to much wine they indeed would have been drunk- so it seems the wine was indeed fermented-
Good point Larry!
John the baptist may never have drank wine but clearly Jesus did.
Yes, John had taken a Nazarite vow. No wine!
Some houses had a cistern to collect rainwater. Homes were usually one story with a usable roof. This roof had a parapet around it to keep people from falling off also a set of outdoor stairs to the roof. This roof area was used for everthing - sleeping in hot weather - drying flax and fruits. The rainwater was collected off this roof. Also the homes had roofs made of poles, tree branches, and mud for a floor.
Can you imagine drinking this runoff water? Reminds me of Bermuda today - they have no water system either. They use cisterns to collect rainwater - roof's are painted white. When you take a shower over there - you don't waste water. You wet down, shut water off, and lather and then rinse quickly. When your cistern runs dry - you pay for a refill.
I wonder if they mix wine with their water? Nephew's Boat
Thanks for that explanation Jasher. Yes in many Caribbean countries they have to concerve water and I know on my mission trip to Dominican Republic.... we, the mission team had to share a bucket of water and each one took just a little and if you were last ..... well. We have to thank God for all we have here in North America and not take it for granted.
Oh , I'll give you a laugh that we still laugh about to this day. There were several times when the water was shut of and it started to rain outside so we all ran out in our swim suits and the pastor who was with us just got her hair lathered with soap when it stopped raining. LOL
What Jasher said!!!
Very accurate...I might add that one reason why the put into the water is because water was potentially contaminated. The alcohol mixed in with it would kill simple bacteria.