Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Criow88, Dec 23, 2013.

  1. I could use some prayers so that I may strengthen my faith

    I have been struggling as of late with doubts not only with Christianity, but with God. I have read scripture, along with apologetic books by authors such as William Craig and Lee Strobel.. I have read some very good points within these books, but the same questions seem to plague me no matter what answers I receive...

    Questions such as...Why would a person be an atheist, Why are there thousands of religions are questions that seem to make me lost my faith. I question things such as, " Why should I be a Christian, when there are so many other religions (Ones dating back even before Christianity) out there. It's tough living in a modern state where Christians seem to be under persecution everywhere...I think this has been a big part in my doubts. Today, we see that Science attempts to explain everything, and really doesn't include God. This is also another huge hamper to my faith.

    I start to question as humans, why are we so significant when we are only a spect in the vast array of cosmos? I also get so confused on the issue of pain and suffering. I know the bible makes it super clear that God's will "will" be done. Its tough seeing examples of situations (such as kids dying) and being able to justify it by saying it was God's will.

    I'm attemping to read scripture more. This may sound like I have lost all Faith, but I do truly believe in God. All I have to do is look up to the sky at night and I can just feel his presence. I would like to live my life, with full praise and appreciation for god and what he has done for us, however I have to get the questions listed above answered before I move on with my journey...

    Any advice folks?

    God Bless.
  2. Start with the basics and be open to a simple faith. Science isn't the enemy, but many scientists do have an agenda to make God irrelevant. It really doesn't have to be that way, but agenda driven people often taint the water so that even those who are strong begin to weaken. It doesn't help that we are flooded with so much information every second of ever day in our world, much of which is designed to destroy our foundation.

    The best advice I can give is to try to find that basic foundation and put the really tough questions on the back burner until your faith is strong enough to tackle them.
    Great Fiction and KingJ say Amen and like this.
  3. It's good that you're thinking about it -- just don't give up in seeking the truth.

    Banarenth gave some pretty good advice.

    People tend to be different religions for different reasons, be it cultural or simply that they want to have their cake and eat it too. It really all differs. There are lots of people who will do what they can to dismiss the concept of God, and it's true that you'll find this in scientists also, but scientists don't exclusively hold this position. Many scientists find that science brings supporting factors to His existence. Even Pope Francis is a scientist.

    Like Banarenth said, review the foundation of the Christian faith and where it all came from. While Christianity itself isn't as old as some, this doesn't mean it is wrong. In fact, Christianity stems from the oldest religion--Judaism.

    It's a step-by-step process learning about the history of one's faith, the history of others', and the whole reasoning behind each one. But when taking the time to learn about it all, it is all worth it. You find yourself with an incredible foundation of truth since emotions can only go so far sometimes.
  4. Why would a person be an atheist?
    Because he cannot stand the idea of being obedient to a Supreme God, since as far as the athiest is concerned, he is the most wondefullest and supremest being in the universe.

    Why are there thousands of religions?
    Because there are 100s of cultures with millions of myths. Many have never heard the truth, others have no desire for truth because it's inconvenient. In my experience, folks will accept or latch on to anything that pleases their egos (as long as it is NOT the truth).

    Why should I be a Christian?
    Because it is objectively true. All other belief systems are man made nonsense.

    Science is all about experimentation producing repeatable results.
    By it's very nature science cannot accept the spiritual. You can't cram an angel into a test tube.

    why are we so significant when we are only a spect in the vast array of cosmos?
    Creating the infinite universe took no effort on God's part. We are significant to Him becuase that is His will.
    If you remember scripture, sparrows are significant to Him also.

    examples of situations (such as kids dying) and being able to justify it by saying it was God's will.
    The wages of sin is death. Our sins impact more than just ourselves. The evil in the world spreads out
    to impact those we would call "innocent". That is the nature of evil, if it only affected the guilty, it really
    wouldn't be a problem. You will remember how much God tends to despise evil.
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  5. First of all, you should stop reading Lee Strobel. I don't know if you're reading his The Case for a Creator, but I've read it and it's downright awful, and very dishonest in places. This is what bugs me about creationism. They give Christians horrible arguments that anyone with a basic understanding of science can shoot down, which sets people like you up to be embarrassed, which can jeopardize your faith.

    William Lane Craig is better and somewhat more objective about science, but I still would take anything he tells you about science with a grain of salt.

    Basically, if you're interested in scientific subjects, get your information from actual scientific resources. Don't go to creationists. That would be like going to Richard Dawkins for information about the Bible.

    As far as the number of religions, I've always figured that to be an indication of the innate spirituality of humans and the unmistakable sense that there is a God. But we are people after all, and we don't always get it right. Remember, Christ only visited a small part of the world for a very short time.

    Atheists? I guess if you're really curious, find one and ask him. If you ask non-atheists that question, you'll get all sorts of answers, many of which I suspect an atheist would laugh at.

    As long as you feel God's presence, you'll be fine. Don't lose your curiosity and sense of wonder. It's a gift from God.
  6. #6 deeezbeats, Dec 28, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
    Why would a person be athiest? Because the Devil wants us to leave God and athiests are bound by no moral code.
    Why are their thousands of religions? Remember how the bible mentions of the fallen angels that chose to do whatever they like? They are the cause of these religions. Just because the bible calls them false Gods doesnt mean they arent real. They are false God's because worshipping them is detestable to God and they wont give you everlasting life. Which is why they are also referred to as worthless God's
    Why are Christians persecuted?John 15:20 "Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours."
    Science only explains Gods wisdom through his creation. I find it incredibly hard to beleive that everything came by chance. The Big bang they say created all the neccesary elements need to form the universe. Which sounds more reasonable. By chance all the elements from the big bang over a long period of time just so happened to form together, Or once all the elements were created during this big bang, God made use of these elements to begin his work. Think of it like this. If you buy seasoning, peppers, chicken broth,a spoon, a stove and a pot do you automatically have chicken noodle soup? NO
    You would need someone to make it. Even then if the ratios arent correct your going to get a terrible outcome. Same thing with making beats. You cant just toss in any instruments and expect to get something decent. you need to mix the instruments, use plugins, know how to use plugins ect. It can be a pretty tedious process. all for a 3-4 minute instrumental. If it takes a conscious soul to construct something like dinner/beats than I'm sure the same applys with the universe. Just look how important trees are. We need them for clean air. Without bee's who would pollinate plants? What would happen if earth never had a moon to keep the oceans in place?
    Hebrews 3:4 "Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but the one who constructed all things is God.
    Also another good example is living being itself. While I was watching a video on evolution it caught my attention on how the creature that was showed(I dont know if they said it was the first conscious organism[before coming to life] but I think it was) It x-rayed the creature and I noticed how it's veins were similar to that of electric wiring. Veins carry blood throughout our bodies just like how electric wires carry electricity from one battery/machine to the other. Electrical wiring had to have been constructed by someone.
    The earth is in autopilot mode with the seasons/weather/animal mating seasons ect. Was the universe in autopilot mode when the big bang happened? Well lets look at a factory. Factorys are designed to be in autopilot mode but even they were designed to do such. Even planes with autopilot were designed to go into autopilot. Websites such as view exchanges with automatic scripts were designed to do exactly so.
    So the argument that the creation of this universe was in autopilot mode after the big bang Without any higher intelligence behind the scenes is uncomprehensible by me. Wheter or not you still beleive that Christianity is the right religion or not. I hope I made it clear how we most definatly did not come by chance. No matter what scientific studies prove the insignificant ideas.
  7. This is why you should get your information on science from actual science sources, rather than non-science apologetic sources.
  8. If it's about the chicken soup anology, I was simply giving an example. I hope you didnt stop reading after that.
  9. Yes, and it's about the whole "science says everything happened by chance" thing. That's not an accurate representation of scientific thinking, and isn't something you likely learned from any genuine science resource. It is something that is repeated in non-scientific, apologetic places though.
  10. #10 deeezbeats, Dec 28, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
    Well my fault for improper wording. Im saying that the big bang happened by chance. The formation of the universe from an athiest point of view, just happened to go through many different scientific processes which in turn created the universe and the earth ect. Now re-read the last 3 sentences.
  11. Ok, that's very different than what you first posted. There are some hypotheses that put quantum fluctuations as the cause of the big bang. However, what happened after that was very deterministic (according to science).

    That's what I was talking about. Science does not say those things happened by chance.

    In your original post?
  12. #12 deeezbeats, Dec 28, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
    If it may seem different idk but it was the intended purpose. Did I say it happened by chance? no I said the big bang was chance. The rest was a sequence events due to gravity static forces atoms ect. and yes to my previous post.
  13. Ok, I understand your point better now. Thanks for explaining.

    So, those last three sentences...

    Again, science does not say "we came about by chance". And I don't understand that last sentence.
  14. #14 deeezbeats, Dec 28, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
    Sorry I meant to say last 3 lines aka last 4 sentences. Lemme just refine my post. Just like how cooking/engineering/music producing all need the ingredients/materials to be of certain ratio for optimal performance The universe wouldv'e had to have a correct ratio of neccesary elements to create the world. My understanding(from an athiest point of view) is that after the big bang happened, all the elements pretty much went into autopilot mode. As regards to that last sentence I forgot what I meant. Basically I dont enjoy too much entertaining certain "theories" and hypothesis that try their best do deny God as creator. And I don't mean it in the ignorant way either although it might've seemed like it.
  15. Ah, I see. I generally agree with you. I'm just a little sensitive about Christians trying to argue against science in the name of Christianity, and making scientifically erroneous statements in the process. Telling young people and prospective Christians that they have to choose between science and Christianity is one of the reasons we're losing people in the developed world.
  16. I used to be an atheist, so I completely understand why people hold that belief. Life seems very chaotic, and seems to lack the perfect order that is God. God chooses to do things in very strange seeming ways. It seems incredulous that a loving and all powerful God is in control of a world that is chaotic and hateful; by it's very nature it seems paradoxical. I think that everyone has at one time in their lives said to God: "God, just move this object two inches, and I'll believe that you're real". But He never does, and that object remains firmly planted wherever you have placed it. To the unbeliever, this is reasonable proof that God does not exist. However, God claims that He has a grand purpose for everything. It can be difficult for even a seasoned believer to keep their faith sometimes, much less someone searching for the truth.

    I highly recommend reading the book of Habakkuk. The book is only a few chapters long, but it is very insightful. The prophet asks God why He won't intervene in the affairs of the world, and God's answer is astounding. God says (paraphrased) "Wait and see, I have something legendary planned. Be patient and live by faith, and you'll see what I have in store for the world".

    It can be very very difficult to believe that God is loving, so for starters, just reaffirm why it is logical to believe in a creator. Don't worry about God's nature until later, or you'll feel overwhelmed. Once you strongly believe in a creator, then begin to explore God's nature, but know that you will never understand God's strange ways.

    We live in an age where everything we hear must be double and triple verified for accuracy, and we have been taught to accept nothing without proof. This makes it difficult to believe anything we are told about God whether it is from the Bible or any other source. Fortunately, God has left a few things that make it easier.

    Check out this exerpt from Ecclesiastes chapter 1:

    The wind goes toward the south,
    And turns around to the north;
    The wind whirls about continually,
    And comes again on its circuit.
    All the rivers run into the sea,
    Yet the sea is not full;
    To the place from which the rivers come,
    There they return again.

    This describes the global wind patterns. Interestingly enough, people didn't really see it this way back when Ecclesiastes was written. These wind patterns weren't officially discovered by science until thousands of years later. So either Solomon got really really lucky, or he was receiving divine information.

    Everyone knew that rain came from the sky, and that rivers flowed to the sea. What they didn't know was that the ocean water evaporated and in the form of clouds returned to the sky once more. Once again, this seemingly outlandish principle wasn't proven for thousands of years after the writing of Ecclesiastes. So either Solomon got extremely lucky twice in a row, or he had divine inspiration.

    This particular passage was written by Job. Again, he makes a very audacious claim for his time. 'the earth hangs on nothing???!! How preposterous! Everyone knows that the world is held up by mythological beings. And yet again, thousands of years later, humanity is surprised to find that in a sense, the world really is suspended upon nothing.

    Again, a very very bold claim. The very idea of a round earth was considered heresy thousands of years later, although we all know quite well now, that the Earth truly is circular.

    The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls have made it possible to date at least some if not all of these writings to a period where such notions were nonsense to the world.

    I hope that my post has helped you, friend. God Bless!
  17. #17 KingJ, Dec 30, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
    Nobody is born a Christian or an atheist. There is a drive to both beliefs. Someone who went from Christian to atheist, clearly has taken offence with God. Atheism condones any life style choice, aka sin. There are billions of fallen angels with us! It shouldn't be a surprise that they be behind many belief systems.

    The bottom line is that we are to seek the truth Matt 7:7. If we seek sincerely we will find it. God is not Houdini. He wants to reach out to us. I respect anyone who 'truthfully' seeks. Even God does 1 Cor 11:31. The thing is, mankind's heart is wicked. We are liars and hypocrites. We do not truthfully seek! If we did we would find Jesus. God has sent us His Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus as Lord to those who seek Him 1 Cor 2:10 and 1 Cor 12:3. He knows this....so when we judge ourselves truthfully....we better do a darn good job if we are outside of Christianity!
  18. The bible provides these answers, and I believe its simple and easy to understand. I sent you a PM. Hope it helps. God bless.
  19. Hi Criow - You arent alone in the way you feel as there is alot of people in the same boat as you. Aetheism is a joke really as to be an aetheist you have to believe in something you 'dont' believe in, i.e non belief in a creator God but firstly there must be a concept of God not to believe in! The paradigm here as well is all modern aetheists rule themselves as scientists or believers in science. Modern science was born from people with faith if you research it. There are hardly any scientists in ancient times who where not embroiled in a belief in the Lord. So everything has flipped over somewhat and the modern world today is cashing a quick buck in aetheistic-humanism.

    The fact is reading books about faith or none faith wont cure the way you feel. Sometimes it confuses the situation more. I know from personal experience as I have read many many books of religion outside of Jesus Christ and found many good things in them but one thing lacked.... a truthful saviour. Faith is faith and you have been given Grace to follow Jesus if you let him rule your life.

    My advice to you is stay away from opinionated books around doctrine for now. Go back to the Word. Pure and simple. Drown yourself in it fundamentally and live it out. Let others have their opinions but let 'your' faith grow.

  20. LOL. I think we're all "believers in science" to some extent. After all, we're using computers and the internet to interact with each other! :cool:

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