Anybody Else Want To Study The Book Of Daniel?
- Thread starter Silk
- Start date
Silk......At this point, Daniel and his 3 friends had been in captivity about 20 years.
Notice the size of the image:
60 cubits high.
60 cubits wide.
and when you read verse #5 we see that there were 6 musical instruments used.
It does not take a lot of education to see the correlation here with the mark of the beast in Rev. 13 and draw a contrast between Nebuchadnezzar and the coming A/C.
I think the desire to have an image is a sign of his mental instability and his egotism. Many believe that the image was made in HIS likeness and I would be thinking the same thing. The A/C will do the same thing.
One of the most damning teaching in Christianity today is the one that says......"You have a spark of divinity in YOU"!
Wrong! We need to get a grip of the Scriptures and understand that in God's view of man, it was the man who has refused God and has not come to Christ.
Ephesians 2:1-9 in fact teach us that we are DEAD. The idea that we in some way have a "spark of divinity" in us and that we then can come to God for salvation when we want to, speaks directly to the idea of man being able to save himself.
That is directly opposite to the Word of God which says in Romans 3:23......."ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".
Ephesians 2:8-9 tell us.....
"Ye are saved by grace through faith and NOT OF YOURSELVES least any man should boast, it is the gift of God".
AMEN! Talk about being slapped in the mouse with a leg of lamb! BOOM!!! What an answer these 3 men gave the king.
They are calm and confident and have all the faith in the world in God. They know God can save them but in fact, if He doesn't, that is also fine with them. If only we all could be moved to have that kind of attitude, the whole world would be changed.
It is sooo hard to get the mind around why people won't see what is in their eternal and even short term interest. It is amazing how blinding sin can be. Ever witness a miracle - then after a span of time, as you move away from it - you begin to rationalize even doubt what you saw? Neb witnesses a miracle when he gets a description AND an interpetation of a dream. He builds a gold statue - denying what he was given or simply wanting more. But the dream is small potatoes to watching 3 men thrown into the blazing oven and don't even smell of smoke when they come out whereas the "mighty men" who threw the 3 in were burned to a crisp. And still ole Neb does not see. Neb still thinks his will rules but he did blink.
[/QUOTE] It does not take a lot of education to see the correlation here with the mark of the beast in Rev. 13 and draw a contrast between Nebuchadnezzar and the coming A/C..[/QUOTE]
The thing to remember is that Nebuchadnezzer made a law that contradicted God's law and forced everyone to obey it or die. Revelation 14 implies that those who take the Mark of the Beast are guilty of breaking the Commandments of God b/c it explicitly says that those who reject the Mark of the Beast "keep the Commandments of God" will become subject to a death decree.
There are only two that the Bible refers to as the "son of perdition" - Judas and the A/C. John says every Antichrist that has come up to his day has arisen in and gone out from the midst of the church, just as Judas arose and betrayed Jesus from the midst of it. Does the Bible say anywhere that the "coming" A/C will arise outside the church?
The thing to remember is that Nebuchadnezzer made a law that contradicted God's law and forced everyone to obey it or die. Revelation 14 implies that those who take the Mark of the Beast are guilty of breaking the Commandments of God b/c it explicitly says that those who reject the Mark of the Beast "keep the Commandments of God" will become subject to a death decree.
There are only two that the Bible refers to as the "son of perdition" - Judas and the A/C. John says every Antichrist that has come up to his day has arisen in and gone out from the midst of the church, just as Judas arose and betrayed Jesus from the midst of it. Does the Bible say anywhere that the "coming" A/C will arise outside the church?
Dan 3:29
Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.
Dan 3:30
Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, in the province of Babylon.
I think these last verses of Daniel Chapt. 3 are very telling. Neb has put spin to his backdown in saying that those "others" who had been critical of Daniel's God (still their God - not Neb's) will stop or be torn to pieces and their houses be trashed. Obviously, this decree can only last as long as Neb - and either he or his sons/heirs can always change their minds - after enough time has passed after miraculous events. Neb's dream of Chapt.2 would long be forgotten if not written in scripture. God sending the prophetic dream has 2 purposes. He preserves the message for all time, that He will protect His people - even in judgement/exile in the then, as well as the here and now. He is the sole owner of power and glory - His promises never broken and His nature does not change. It's an important message - over time - only God's Will prevails. And only those who follow that Will - out of love - will survive. The message is for everyone, both Jew & Gentile.
Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.
Dan 3:30
Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, in the province of Babylon.
I think these last verses of Daniel Chapt. 3 are very telling. Neb has put spin to his backdown in saying that those "others" who had been critical of Daniel's God (still their God - not Neb's) will stop or be torn to pieces and their houses be trashed. Obviously, this decree can only last as long as Neb - and either he or his sons/heirs can always change their minds - after enough time has passed after miraculous events. Neb's dream of Chapt.2 would long be forgotten if not written in scripture. God sending the prophetic dream has 2 purposes. He preserves the message for all time, that He will protect His people - even in judgement/exile in the then, as well as the here and now. He is the sole owner of power and glory - His promises never broken and His nature does not change. It's an important message - over time - only God's Will prevails. And only those who follow that Will - out of love - will survive. The message is for everyone, both Jew & Gentile.
Here is Chapter Four....Blessed Christmas to all.
Dan 4:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king, unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.
Dan 4:2 I thought it good to shew the signs and wonders that the high God hath wrought toward me.
Dan 4:3 How great are his signs! and how mighty are his wonders! his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion is from generation to generation.
Dan 4:4 I Nebuchadnezzar was at rest in mine house, and flourishing in my palace:
Dan 4:5 I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.
Dan 4:6 Therefore made I a decree to bring in all the wise men of Babylon before me, that they might make known unto me the interpretation of the dream.
Dan 4:7 Then came in the magicians, the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers: and I told the dream before them; but they did not make known unto me the interpretation thereof.
Dan 4:8 But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying,
Dan 4:9 O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof.
Dan 4:10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
Dan 4:11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:
Dan 4:12 The leaves thereof were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all: the beasts of the field had shadow under it, and the fowls of the heaven dwelt in the boughs thereof, and all flesh was fed of it.
Dan 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
Dan 4:14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
Dan 4:15 Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:
Dan 4:16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
Dan 4:18 This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee.
Dan 4:19 Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was astonied for one hour, and his thoughts troubled him. The king spake, and said, Belteshazzar, let not the dream, or the interpretation thereof, trouble thee. Belteshazzar answered and said, My lord, the dream be to them that hate thee, and the interpretation thereof to thine enemies.
Dan 4:20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;
Dan 4:21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:
Dan 4:22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.
Dan 4:23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;
Dan 4:24 This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:
Dan 4:25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
Dan 4:26 And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.
Dan 4:27 Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.
Dan 4:28 All this came upon the king Nebuchadnezzar.
Dan 4:29 At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.
Dan 4:30 The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
Dan 4:31 While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.
Dan 4:32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
Dan 4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
Dan 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Dan 4:36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
Dan 4:37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.
Dan 4:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king, unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.
Dan 4:2 I thought it good to shew the signs and wonders that the high God hath wrought toward me.
Dan 4:3 How great are his signs! and how mighty are his wonders! his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion is from generation to generation.
Dan 4:4 I Nebuchadnezzar was at rest in mine house, and flourishing in my palace:
Dan 4:5 I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.
Dan 4:6 Therefore made I a decree to bring in all the wise men of Babylon before me, that they might make known unto me the interpretation of the dream.
Dan 4:7 Then came in the magicians, the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers: and I told the dream before them; but they did not make known unto me the interpretation thereof.
Dan 4:8 But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying,
Dan 4:9 O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof.
Dan 4:10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
Dan 4:11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:
Dan 4:12 The leaves thereof were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all: the beasts of the field had shadow under it, and the fowls of the heaven dwelt in the boughs thereof, and all flesh was fed of it.
Dan 4:13 I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
Dan 4:14 He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
Dan 4:15 Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:
Dan 4:16 Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
Dan 4:18 This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee.
Dan 4:19 Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was astonied for one hour, and his thoughts troubled him. The king spake, and said, Belteshazzar, let not the dream, or the interpretation thereof, trouble thee. Belteshazzar answered and said, My lord, the dream be to them that hate thee, and the interpretation thereof to thine enemies.
Dan 4:20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;
Dan 4:21 Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:
Dan 4:22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.
Dan 4:23 And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;
Dan 4:24 This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:
Dan 4:25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
Dan 4:26 And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.
Dan 4:27 Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.
Dan 4:28 All this came upon the king Nebuchadnezzar.
Dan 4:29 At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.
Dan 4:30 The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
Dan 4:31 While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.
Dan 4:32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
Dan 4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
Dan 4:34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Dan 4:36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
Dan 4:37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.
If Neb was saved it is just not clear, we will have to wait to be sure. The lesson however is powerful, he at least recognized the one true God.
Nebuchadnezzar’s experience gives us the obvious spiritual lesson that even the greatest of earthly sovereigns is completely subject to the absolute power of God. The debate as to whether he was actually saved in a spiritual sense remains unsettled. Notable scholars like Calvin, Hengstenberg, Pusey, and Keil believe the evidence is insufficient.31 As Young and others point out, however, there is considerable evidence of Nebuchadnezzar’s spiritual progress, of which chapter 4 is the climax (cf. 2:47; 3:28; 4:34–35). There can be little question that he acknowledged Daniel’s God as the omnipotent sovereign of the universe (4:34, 35, 37). His issuing of a decree somewhat humiliating to his pride and containing an abject recognition of the power of God gives some basis for believing that Nebuchadnezzar had a true conversion. Inasmuch as in all ages some men are saved without gaining completely the perspective of faith or being entirely correct in the content of their beliefs, it is quite possible that Nebuchadnezzar will be numbered among the saints.
Walvoord, John F (2012-02-01). Daniel (The John Walvoord Prophecy Commentaries) (Kindle Locations 2427-2434). Moody Publishers. Kindle Edition.
He got a good knock on the head indeed. Eating grass like oxen and so forth...
Where it says in verse 23 'til seven times pass over thee', does seven times mean seven years? When ever the bible use the word times to refer to a measurement of time I wonder if it means years...
I am one who believes that Nebuchadnezzar suffered from some form of insanity.
In fact, IMO most of the kings of kingdoms in history showed a kind of mental illness. When a man is given total over over other humans so that he can have people en-slaved, torturted and killed, it changes his mental ability drastically.
IMO the key to chapter 4 is found in verse #17.
"This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones; to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men; and giveth it to whomsever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men".
God says that HE puts on the thrones of this world the basest of men. In other words, God gives us the kind of rulers we deserve and the kind we want. It has been about 3000 years since Neb uchadnezzar and we still are doing the same thing.
The dream of the kings tells us 3 things we can learn.........
#1. The most High ruleth in the kingdom of men".
God in in controle of all things and He has not lost anything. God says the He is moving on with His plan and purpose.
2. He "giveth it to whoever He will".
God puts people in power and He removes them from the power thereof.
Romans 13:1.........."The powers that be are ordained by God".
3. "He setteth up over it the basest of men".
If we think we pick the BEST people......think again.We vote these people in so that we get what we deserve.
Yes. It means 7 YEARS.
Absolutely! God's salvation rules pride OUT. That is the one thing we cannot indulge in when we come to Christ to be saved.
1 Corth. 2:2........
"For I determined not to know anything among you save Jesus Christ and Him crucified".
Oh. Thanks.
God bless you!
Yes, Patricia 7 yrs. What's amazing is that God does what He says. He kept Neb's kingdom intact. This is a miracle in itself - what government can withstand and stay status quo while the tyrant goes mad? And I think of how hard it is to see truth and not be full of yourself, if you are surrounded by people who are too terrified to disagree with you in any way? Being a leader is hard, especially when you are doing it outside of God. And the truth here is that we are just beasts without God. Seven years eating grass? Yuck. I like a good salad now and then but grass makes bread and water sound good.