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Any reason to believe in god?

Discussion in 'Answers' started by Unregistered, Feb 11, 2009.

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  1. Any reason to believe in god?

    Hello. You are believing in some imaginary guy that controls the world just because of an ancient book. But there is no evidence that he really exists. I think most of you are just christians because their parents were christians.

    So I want to ask you a few questions about your believe now.

    If god exists, why is there suffering? If he is perfect and allmighty, why does he allow that millions of poor, innocent children starve?

    If god created the universe and natural laws, he knew what will happen, so he could decide what will happen when he created it. That means, if he influences later, he changed his opinion. But if he is perfect, he doesn't change his opinion, because one of these opinions, the old one or the new one is not perfect. Thus, if god is allmighty, all-knowing and perfect, he doesn't influence in our lives. q.e.d.

    And what do you think about these bible verses:
    Genesis 19:7-8
    Genesis 19:31-36
    Judges 19:23-24
    Judges 19:25-26
    Judges 19:29
    Numbers 15:32-36

    I hope you will answer my questions and won't ban my IP for daring asking these questions.

  2. There really is more to it than that. I invite you to dialogue with me about this via e-mail. I can be reached at vocabguy AT yahoo DOT com. Below, though, are some more answers...

    There is plenty of evidence. Contrary to what many atheists claim, the argument by design is a perfectly valid, reasonable argument for God's existence. But aside from that, one interesting thing to note is that the Bible never sets out to prove God's existence; it merely assumes it, and that from the very opening words of the book of Genesis. The Bible teaches--rightly so--that the natural world around us, including the entire universe, screams out that there is a divine, superior being who is wise and good. Therefore, to assert that God does not exist is on the same level as saying that the computer screen you are looking at right now does not exist. It's too obvious and plain to deny unless one is determined to deny it.

    I didn't become a Christian until I was 19. Before then my family was quite irreligious.

    This is a valid, important question; but I wonder if there is not an assumption of your own that is driving it. Your question is based on your own belief that if God exists, is perfect and is almighty then he must eliminate the suffering of so many people now. Certainly this is how you yourself would handle the suffering in the world, but does this mean that God must handle it this way? Do you see what I am getting at? It seems that your question is based on the assumption that your way of handling the world's suffering would be the hands-down, absolutely correct and only way to handle it. You are rejecting the existence of God based on your own standard. We first have to take a step back and determine whether that standard is true.

    Two more serious problems with your question are: 1) You are putting all the blame for the world's suffering on God, and 2) you are overlooking the fact that God has indeed done something about the cause of suffering in this world. Man, through his overall depravity, is directly responsible for much of human suffering, whether it be caused by wars, selfishness, greed, hatred, murder, and so on. The ultimate cause of most suffering is human sin. Thus, to eliminate much of the suffering in the world, the root cause of it--sin--would have to be eliminated. This is exactly what God did by sending his only Son into the world--to atone for sin and do away with it once and for all. Therefore, Christianity provides the best answer to the old theodicy issue you have raised.

    Lukas, you'll have to be more specific about these verses. What is it about them that you want us to address?

    Thanks for the questions,

  3. yeah i see what you mean there. but, people find religion if they are having a very hard time, feel insecure, just for a feeling of security in a comunity very often, i know of many examples. but i think you're pretty much right - parents have a massive influence if you are at a young age. cram stuff into your brain from birth and it's hard to disagree later.. it's only when you are a pre teen when you really start to think for yourself..
    hmm brave of you to ask about suffering. i'm not a christian, but i can answer that for them
  4. Ask yourself this: Would you rather believe and be wrong or not believe and be wrong? Do you dare take a chance?
    Then when you are really ready ask God himself if he's real and if so to show you. You will find Him when you seek Him with all your heart.
  5. has not there been tens of thousands of scholarly books on the issue of suffering?

    i mean, the arguments posed by the OP are all level 1 arguments (that is to say, low-level arguments) and have been rebutted by thousands of Christians since the dawn of time. why are you Atheists so ignorant of the world around you?

    I just want to make one thing clear in this thread and any other thread in the answers forum, we Christian's have experienced God, and we know that He exists beyond any reasonable doubt. ("reasonable doubt" includes any psychological, sociological, or trans-hypnotic effect that atheists claim are the cause behind our experiences). that is not to say that we don't have doubts, we do, but it's mostly doubts concerning ourselves, concerning the will of God for us, etc.
  6. Really there is much proof that GOD exsists, but HE is in my heart, not through influence, but by the measure of faith that I was born with.

    Also, many that do not believe in GOD still chose to believe in evolution right?
    But, if they would look and research evolution , they would soon discover that it does not even have enough to it to become an actual theory. A theory supports a hypothesis. A hypothesis is a guess, and a hypothesis is something that can be disproven, but not proven as fact. therefore applying evolution as a scientific theory makes it no more than a guess, and truley it does not even qualify for this because no one was here to test it 2000 and before, that can retest it today.

    A christian has belief in God, because we CAN see HIS works and HIS love and power. We feel HIM like we feel love from those who care for us. I cannot see the love of mu husband, right? Can you see love? no, but you know that you have people, such as mom, dad, husband, wives, and etc. that love you and you know without doubt this is true.
    This is the same way I know the love of my saviour on heaven is true.
    blessings to you, and I pray you find that love.
  7. platinum don't go thinking we (atheists) are ignorant of the world around us... some just don't think about the answer before opening their mouth or post a message or whatever.
    i think many christians are ignorant, not about the world around you, but or other ideas, beliefs. it's only what i find in christians, nothing else.
  8. Unless a man has tasted the reality of a relationship and interaction with the Living God he simply cannot comprehend the reality of it.
    I have seen miracles, I have known God and walked with Him this is a reality in my life. Until your heart is open to receive from Him you can no more comprehend Him than a blind man can understand the concepts of color.
    That is no insult but simply a fact. I am praying for you my friend.
  9. What Boanerges said. +1

    I hope and pray that you will open your heart up to believe and receive the Lord, for your life will be drastically changed for the better when you do.

    I'm not saying that your life is bad now, I don't know you. But I do know this, no matter what your life is like without God, it will be infinitely better with Him. Ask me how I know.
  10. Hi Lukas,

    In reference to the verses you quoted, I am assuming you put them there to try and show how contradictory the bible can be. Christians state that God is love, yet the bible contains verses which seem to contain terrible violence which is seemingly approved of by God Himself.

    Firstly, when reading the bible never take verses out of context. There is actually a verse in the Bible which states that God does not exist, but once put in context it actually means the opposite. A verse out of context becomes pretext! The original books in the bible where not written with verses and chapters, they where written as complete scrolls meant to be read from beginning to end. The verses where only put in much later to help with referencing purposes.

    Secondly, the Bible is an honest book. It is probably the only religious book which shows both the strengths and weaknesses of the characters represented.

    In all of the verses you listed, except the last one, they all show the terrible weakness of man, choosing the lesser evil over the greater evil. Man in his weakness decided to destroy the life of another to protect seemingly righteous people. We can take a few lessons from these passages.

    1) Genesis 19, is an account of Sodom where two angels appeared to Lot. Sodom was a terrible place where sexual pervesion was rife. Not only was it a place of terrible sexual perversion but it was also a place where there was terrible violence where homosexuals would kill just to have sex.
    Lot, in his weakness (yes Lot was a weak man, do a study on him further in the bible) offered up his daughters instead of the angels. Why would he do this? Well he had reverence for things that where Holy, and probably feared that if the angels where harmed then he would be destroyed along with his family, so Lot took the seemingly lesser evil over the greater evil.
    Yes these where actual people with actual problems, what would you have done in the same circumstances?

    What is interesting to note is that God did not approve of Lots actions. The angels could have looked after themselves quire easily but Lot out of lack of faith made the wrong choices. What is even more interesting is that God, out of His righteous judgement, destroyed Sodom for its sins.

    Have a closer look at what happened in Sodom.

    I will go into the other verses when I have some spare time.

    I hope you will find some answers.
  11. My first responce didn't make it past Queand it is probably just as well it didn't,, so I'll take another approach

    Why does this bother you so????

    Why does it matter to you what we believe or why we believe it????
    Many athiest are arhiest because their parents were, same goes for Hindos Buddrsts, Indians Germans, Italions, Americans ,Jews and Rednecks After all parental influence is universial. Certianly not exclusive to Christianity
  12. why?

    Why are you attacking him? That is not a very nice thing to do. He obviously came to this site to get christian opinions on the subject rather than some random site that may have obscure answers. Would Jesus respond in such a way? I do not think so. This person may be wanting to believe in God, otherwise they would not have come here for answers. In any case, do not feel upset about people insulting you. Not everyone does such things to people respectfully trying to find answers.

    to answer your questions:

    Although God is infallible and all knowing, humans chose to have knowledge of good and evil, happiness and suffering. He does not allow us any more suffering than we can handle. That is why we die, we cannot handle anymore suffering or our body cannot handle anymore stress. He relieves us of our pain and suffering either through our own willpower and determination to go on, or by allowing us to pass on. We cannot begin to understand God's reasons for doing things the way he does, but it all will make sense at the end.

    I hope I have helped.
  13. Need I remind you that atheism(whatever that may be, a belief the universe is a random event amidst nothingness?) is also a religion which has a core of beliefs thought by that person to be irrefutable. To believe the way of man to be true, and modern science as ironclad is equivalent to blocking the view of the tree of life with your hands and telling yourself "there is no eternity". For, of course, all believe their own perception is best and their ways true whether they are of faith or not. To truly commune with God? You will not if you are scornful, blind, deaf, and basically devoid of the spirit of life. The world suffers because its ways are filled with blood, darkness, deceit, and madness. Insomuch as the world has tried to find the true spirit of God, they have failed to capture its true essence.

    Now I won't spend too much time with this, I'm not attacking you personally by the way. It's just that every atheist I've ever met asks me the same few questions about God every single time. Since I have no moral interest in changing their ways, I simply tell them that unless you seek the First and the Last, with sheer humility, shame, and a thirst for the river of life; you also will not see the Eternal One, who lives forever and ever, what is, what was, what is to come. You will see the sign of Noah, warning you of the wrath of the Lamb who was slain.

    To him who sits on the throne of God be eternal praise and also to the Lamb, who gave his very life for us, to him be glory and power and might and blessing, from now and forever. Amen
  14. If god exists, why is there suffering? If he is perfect and allmighty, why does he allow that millions of poor, innocent children starve?

    God allows the things to happen since sin entered the world.
  15. Any reason to believe in god?

    Any reason not to believe in God?
  16. My two cents.

    God created a perfect place and gave us the choice (without choice we are robots) to obey Him and have dominion over this earth. We chose not to obey him and handed over the authority meant for us, to Satan who is now ruling the earth. Therefore the sickness, decease and war. You can claim that authority back in Jesus name as a Christian.
  17. Jeff, I wasn't saying that I was just quoting someone else.
  18. Sorry, I was in a bit of hurry to catch my uni bus. So I thought it was convenient to just quote your reply instead of searching for the original post. :D I knew it wasn't your post.
  19. God gave us free will in the begining. It was perfect. When Eve took the apple it was her choice as was Adams to eat the forbidden fruit. You see.... if we had no free will God would not be glorified. By choosing God/Jesus as Lord and saviour you are giving HIM the Glory He deserves since HE is the creator of our very being. it is implanted in our hearts from birth right and wrong. It is a given. Even if you dont know God there is a tugging in YOUR HEART. You just dont know what it is till you accept Jesus as your Lord. Through the many years since the Bible was written man has tried to prove it wrong looking for false hoods, lies. They cannot prove anything that is false. ALL the prophecies have come to pass as predicted in the Bible. The stage is set for the final battle. The Bible tells of this all through the book. :D There is nothing we can do but accept Jesus as Lord and saviour before it is too late. I too have seen many miracles in my FACE! I can vouch for this. Read my testimony. When you experience the Holy spirit up close and personal YOU WILL know that God is real and alive. I been there and still doin it!!:cool: Please read my testimony and you might understand a little better. i should have been dead allready.But there is something better for me. May God bless you my unknown friend. Peace be with you:cool::israel:

    Chili out.
  20. If Adam and Eve would not have messed up I am quite sure we would have done it for them.

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