Another thought on baptism

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by 2404, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. Given that we are saved through the accomplished work done at Calvary should our baptism then not be related to our salvation?
    Could then the name (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost be the Lord Jesus Christ?
  2. Yes, baptism is not related to our salvation. We are saved only by faith in Jesus Christ. I hope you were referring to water baptism?
    I did not really understand your second point/question
    Major likes this.
  3. I didn't see this question posed, but I did make a thread on this topic today. I may answer your question.
  4. Hello Ravindran
    Yes, I was referring to water baptism.
    I understand it to be one of the scriptural ordinances left for us to observe. I believe its purpose is for us to be identified with Jesus Christ in His death and resurrection testifying to the Christian born again experience.
    'We are saved only by faith in Jesus Christ.'
    I am with you on that, but what caused that faith?
  5. Thank you AlephBet
    I need to read it again - a lot there - in many directions.
  6. Faith is not our work, but the Father's work in and through us.

    John 6:65 - 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

    The cause of our faith is not us, but the Father that said ALL nations would be blessed (Rainbow). It is his work to save us by saving His Son first. Jesus gave credit to the Father. So should we of course. God the Father is Elohim from Genesis 1:1. Ruach is the Holy Spirit from the same chapter. When it says, "Let us make man in our image," this is the two parents of the Son giving Adam / Humanity life. We are all one loaf (Seed in water baking in an oven). Baptism is literally the life we live. You must be born again. Try not to be burnt toast.
    Major likes this.
  7. Faith only comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). We are not saved by faith, we are saved by "grace" through faith. It is only by God's mercy and grace can anyone be saved. But, for us to "access" this salvation which was given to us by grace, requires "faith".

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

    Faith only gives us access (a key) to our salvation, which was given to us by grace.
    Major, Big Moose and Cturtle says Amen and like this.

  8. Of course...
    My reference to faith was for the purpose to acknowledge that it is not simply a intellectual decision but that 'faith is a substance' it has to have an origin and if we have that then all the scriptures you sited are reality.
    Cturtle and CCW95A say Amen and like this.
  9. Faith comes by hearing the Word. Calvinist, electionist, have some disability that comes from the devil blinding them and they fail to see scriptures above and below their cherry picked scriptures.

    Joh 6:44-45 kjva 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

    So, EVERY single person that will hear, and will learn (Their choice) the Word, God will reveal and increase the Word in them to give them faith.

    For one plants (The Word) the other waters the Word (builds on) an d God gives the increase to His Word. The understading and light.
  10. If faith came by only HEARING the Word of God . How come not all are saved? or that the scripture continues and says hearing again?
    Because you can have ears but do not hear . Or comprehend .
    Thus faith in God comes by hearing and understanding the Word of God .
    We also do not need to get or find faith for "God has given to every man a measure of faith to profit with all "
    All men then have faith as defined by the Bible in Hebrews . Be they saved or not .
    So all those who mock and deny faith do but undermine their own.
    Thus the faith that all men have and excersise every day is the same' faith ' that men put in God as it is faith .
    But by the definition of what faith IS as defined in Hebrews . Then it works or comes about in the same way as it always does .
    By understanding.
    Faith in God comes when by the same principle you understand what God is saying or promising .

    in Christ
  11. What people call 'calvanist' and as you also put it election.
    Is not I believe what he taught . But what a lot of modern day theologians think he said .
    But the scriptures in any event not only teach that men are" elected "
    But that some are predestined .
    But not as if they have some inherent virtue or inbuilt construct to believe .
    For is it not written in eph that we were as all men once "children of disobedience"? and by nature "children of wrath"?
    Thus there is no difference between one lump of clay and another in a field of clay .
    It is the potter who makes the difference .

    in Christ
  12. Jesus did not need to be 'saved'
    Albeit "he who knew no sin became sin" He was thus subject to death by the law . But no man taketh his life from Him but he laid it down .
    The devil who has the power of death could not then refuse his entrance . For his power is by the law .
    But seeing that Jesus in his own person had not and did not sin .He was free from the law and thus God could justifiably and righteously raise him from the dead.
    He was not 'saved ' then as we are . For he had not sinned and death could not hold him in .

    Those who then die IN Christ are then also raised together WITH Christ " and are 'saved'

    in Christ
  13. GBzone, faith does only come by hearing the Word of God as it is written...

    Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
    Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
    Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    Hearing the Gospel is hearing the Word of God, which brings faith so the hearer can have faith to be saved. Many people hear the Word and know the way of salvation, but there is a huge difference between receiving faith and excising faith.

    Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, (The Word) to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    Having the "power" to become a child of God and actually being one is determined by weather or not that person exercised that power to become one.
    How does a person exercise that power (faith)?

    Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
  14. I agree completely. When we think about God saving man from his sins, we normally think it was just Jesus by himself, when in reality it was the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all working together to bring about man's salvation. Jesus never claimed to do any thing as he always said, " it was his Father in him that was doing the works", and the Holy Spirit had anointed him so he could break every yoke to set men free. If we really understood how God works we would know as it is written, "in Christ dwells all the fullness of the God heard bodily" (Col 2:9) Were ever you find Jesus, you will find in him all the Godhead contained in their fullness.
  15. Calvinism is a junk doctrine. There is an election for every single person and plan for their life. There is no election where God suddenly becomes a respecter of persons.

    And why would you care what modern theologians even think.
    Well, bingo, there you go. Jesus only said what He heard his father say, and do only what He saw his FAther do. Jesus was also filled with the Power of the Holy Spirit, whom the Father Sent when He went to die for us.

    In the Anointing (Christ) His anointing you will find the fullness of the Godhead Bodily. Who's the body? Thats us, and we have the same Holy Spirit Jesus had, put in the body as God wills.

    His anointing, In Christ, can destroy yoke, and change hearts.

    Exciting if you think on it a bit. I always have to reminded myself it's not all my revelation God gave me that helps anyone, it's His Anointing on my life that opens light in thier heart.
    Knowledge without the anointing is dry and dead, having no power.
  16. Hearing not heard... it never ends...
  17. not only all what you said as truth, but Jesus is still teaching today as we have died and it is no longer "I" that lives but Christ now lives in me.
    Major likes this.
  18. #18 Brother Paul, Feb 2, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
    You totally miss the point of the phrase "in the name of" (having been persuaded or beguiled)...this phrase means by their authority (like a decree in the name of the King means by and of the King and one bringing the decree is as the King Himself speaking the words of the King and doing the work of the King having all the power and authority of the King to carry out that decree, just like in our culture when we hear the phrase "Stop! In the name of the Law!") "The Shem" to get an insight into how the Hebrew thinker (or writer in Matthews case) would see this (and forget the works of people like David Bernard)

    Acts 2:38 actually says (in the Greek) "baptized INTO the name (which for Peter or Paul meant "the shem") of the Lord Jesus is not about using that name as some magical formula, it is about being baptized into His person and authority by which with His Spirit we are as His body in the world, speaking His words, doing His works, and we can do this by the faith OF the Son of God...( He obtained it for us who are made by God to be like Him)
    Major likes this.
  19. There are multiple responses to this question.

    Some believe that baptism is a public statement of one's faith -- that it doesn't have any contributing factor to salvation, but that it is something that can (or even should) be done for the sake of not hiding one's faith.

    Others believe that baptism is a sacrament -- a necessary action provided if one has the capability and time (meaning not about to die), for cleansing original sin -- mostly because of passages like Acts 2:38, Peter 3:21, Mark 16:16, and John 3:5.

    Some arguments against the need for baptism are linked to passages about the thief on the cross who was promised salvation. People refer to cases like his as baptism by desire, where had he survived and been brought down, he would have desired baptism.

    Anyway, you'll here many perspectives of this, and I only listed the most common two. I hold to the latter position myself.

    Just a heads up, I don't care to have an argument on this.
  20. Too bad the Apostle Paul didn't have a chance to confer with you before he instructed the disciples to be rebaptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Acts.19:5, for they had already been baptized in the authority of the God head.

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