Another Hot Button Marriage. Why Are So Many Believers Against It?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Stan, Jun 15, 2013.

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  1. I personally have no problem with gays having the same rights as ALL citizens, including marriage. Why are so many opposed to it?
  2. Really?
    KingJ likes this.
  3. Because every verse in Scripture that mentions homosexuality says it is a sin, and every verse about marriage mentions husbands and wives, or wives and husbands, not husbands and husbands or wives and wives. Marriage is not a piece of paper or a fancy get together where you spend thousands of dollars for one kiss in clothes you're going to where one time. It is a covenant between a man, a woman, and God.

    Living in sin is not something that gets God's blessing, and frankly it shouldn't get ours, either.

    Furthermore, if gay marriage became okay, why then would it not be okay for me to marry my sister? My father? My aunt? My dog? A venomous duck?

    The covenant of marriage must have boundaries, and we find those boundaries clearly spelled out in Scripture.
    KingJ and LiveOutLouder say Amen and like this.
  4. First off-the world is going to do whatever it wants because the (true) Church no longer has a significant influence in it. So we are to love the sinner and hate the sin-but when we stop standing up against the sin it shows the apathy of the Church.

    True marriage of a man and and a woman is sanctified by God-and now the destruction of the family unit is complete by destroying the very thing that God ordained in the beginning by placing an abomination where it does not belong...
    KingJ and RoninJedi say Amen and like this.
  5. I do have to preface what I share by clarifying that I love people (ALL people) regardless of their sexual orientation. Although the bible is clear about this lifestyle choice. I guess, in part, some of my reasons for not supporting equal rights is because it would be as though I am in support of the sin. 1 John 2:10 says, "Anyone who loves another brother or sister is living in the light and does not cause others to stumble."

    1. Leviticus 18:22
      “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
    2. Leviticus 20:13
      “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
    3. 1 Corinthians 6:9
      Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
    4. 1 Timothy 1:10
      The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching.
    If I had a bunch of friends who were committing adultery, I couldn't in a clear conscious advocate that we should make adultery socially acceptable, therefore, I can't advocate for the homosexual lifestyle under that same premise.
    KingJ and RoninJedi say Amen and like this.

  6. OK let's be clear, WE are ALL sinners. Some saved by Grace and some not. Sin is sin and yes some sin is pointed out in scripture. The ONLY sin I see that has a severe repercussion is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. ALL other sin is forgivable and is, when we are saved. Are fornicators any worse that homosexuals? Are murders or adulterers any worse?
    Marriage is what God designed as per Gen 2:24.
    What I am talking about is secular marriage, something that does NOT affect the Body of Christ. Many unbelievers get married in the secular world. I am talking about democratic rights to citizens, NOT Biblical instructions to believers.

    BTW, what are the boundaries spelled out in scripture?

  7. and so because of your strong Christian belief you feel gays should not have a normal right of citizenship to get married, even though liars, murderers, fornicators and unbelievers do?

  8. Again I am NOT talking about Biblical marriage. I am talking about secular rights of citizens. I disagree that the true church has no influence. People get saved every day. If you mean political influence, it should not have that. Jesus made it very clear HIS Kingdom was NOT of this world. There seems to be way to many Christians that want to legislate morality when Jesus said He did NOT come to do that.

    Where exactly is TRUE marriage defined in the scriptures?
    Lifeasweknowit likes this.

  9. Yes.
  10. In my opinion-the 'state' has no right to issue, dictate, create ordinance on any 'personal' relationship. As a people, we allow the government to infiltrate our lives.

    The 'institution of marriage' belongs solely to God and any variation from the original plan should be dissuaded. By allowing the gubment into our bedrooms-we open up this can of worms in search of 'what can I get out of this deal?'

    Simply put; it is all for the love of money-in the guise of personal love toward one another. You are correct-true marriage versus the ungodly marriage are polar opposites. By coupling it with 'benefits' we (the Church) have allowed it to become an abomination in God's eyes. Like I said-the world will do what the world will do. But we should stand up for something-shouldn't it be for the righteousness of God's creation?

  11. Marriage is NOT an institution. It is an instruction of God. The state is who legalized marriage if you study it's history.
    Paul was clear in being a law abiding citizen, and he tells us that those who are have nothing to fear from the government.

    We need to confess Jesus and God before men, that's it!
  12. This discussion pinches so many nerves in my body. Stan, saying their are no degrees of sin is naive don't you see that?

    If your wife thinks of other men = bad. If your wife watches porn = worse. If your wife commits adultery = terrible. However all these can be forgiven for sincere repentance....but then...consistent adultery = divorce!!!!!

    Likewise with God... our levels of rebellion are forgiven 7x70 times a day as long as we can sincerely repent...but when we continue in an extremity of rebellion....our repentance becomes a joke....our salvation comes into serious question. If God wanted you to be with a man He would have made you a woman. Since you are clearly made a man, being with the same sex is 100% against God will = Major rebellion, not dipping your feet in sin, nope rather dunking your whole body in it causing the Holy Spirit to want to jump out. It is a clear indicator that the flesh is in full control. I cannot think of many worse examples.

    Christians condoning it in anyway (approving of them being married for one) are watering down the scripture. We must not dim our light. As for me and my house...

    I actually can't believe we having this discussion. Christians must oppose this or else younger Christians will be stumbled. This is the chief reason for me. I know the carnal are capable of any sin and for them sin = sin...but NOT for us. We are going from glory to glory!!!! 2 Cor 3:18.

    Proverbs 27:5 Better is open rebuke than hidden love. 1 Tim 5:20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 2 Tim 3:16017 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. Titus 2:15, 1 Tim 5:1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers. 1 Cor 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? Prov 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy.
    JustPassingThru and LiveOutLouder say Amen and like this.
  13. Liars, murderers, fornicators, and unbelievers do not tout their sin to justify their lifestyle. How can you dispute that marriage is between a man and a woman? God created this union: Genesis 2:22-24

    With all due respect Stan... You must have expected this topic to generate an emotional response because it is highly contested in the world; causing division between people, families, and communities. Satan must be having a field day watching it cause division in the church too! (That's the burden that I carry the heaviest on this discussion.) That, in and of itself, demonstrates that this is not of God. We need to pray not only for homosexuals, but for everyone who does not know Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior that they will come to repent of their sin. Why don't we put our energy into helping non-believers come into a relationship with Christ, not put ourselves out there to make our declarations about right and wrong - at the end of the day that is what Christ came to do... "Seek and to save those that are lost." Luke 19:10

    JustPassingThru likes this.
  14. First, I don't really agree that we are all continuing to sin, but I don't think we really need to argue that point. Only that "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" To make the argument that it's "just a sin" is to encourage sin. Regardless of how we define sin or how whether we believe that Christians continue to sin or not, it is wrong to encourage sinful behavior.

    The main point of discussion as far as I can tell is the morality of homosexuality. Here is the thing, homosexual marriage was never illegal. That's only a very recent thing. It's never been outlawed, it simply wasn't recognized by the government for purposes of marriage benefits, though some states have begun preemptively outlawing it. That's going to bit some people in the back I think. By giving the government the right to define these things, even when they choose the way we want them to, we have granted them the right to later control it in a way we may not agree with. The government offered a very legitimate option for homosexuals with civil unions, granting every right that a married couple would have. Marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman. God created marriage. The state at some point started regulating a legal definition of marriage, but the state cannot redefine what God designed. I don't really care if gay couples want to join civil unions, or be united in whatever practice they want to be joined in. They are lost, and we must find ways to reach them with the Gospel. Attempting to control their behavior without first introducing them to Jesus is a mistake. But redefining marriage is not such a simple idea. Redefining marriage by the government is allowing the government to step into religion. It is giving them control over our beliefs. The problem is, no matter what the government decides to say, the marriage will not be a real marriage. It will not be ordained by God. What WILL happen, is we will lose some of our religious rights. Those are protected under the Constitution, the right of marriage is not.
  15. Sorry but I am NOT intentionally being antagonistic. I did recognize it as a hot button topic if you note my OP heading. If you can show me where scripture says there is degree in sin I will look at it. Trust me I am no where near naive.

    I'm pretty sure you know the answer to this. Using Reductio ad absurdum doesn't foster productive discussion.

    Again you don't seem to GET the OP. In any event I don't believe God decides our gender, no more than he decides our sexual orientation. Our gender is decided by our fathers and our orientation is decided by ourselves.
    We are talking about gay rights in the democracy we live in, NOT what the Bible says about homosexuality. I'm sure ALL here will agree that homosexuality is just as much of a sin as fornication, lying, stealing and murder is. The problem is that Christians don't say anything about those other types of sinners getting married. :(

    How exactly is recognizing the gay community should have civil rights like any other sinner, tantamount to condoning their sin? Is it stopping you from being a Christian or living your life? Is it forcing you to condone there lifestyle?

    Well this isn't a dream KJ so maybe you should ask yourself why you're so bent out of shape about it? Jesus always hung out with sinners when He was here and said healthy people DON'T need a doctor! 2 Cor 3:18 is great but how can we actually move from one degree to the next when we are so stuck on vilifying gays? Look how Jesus treated the prostitute in Luke 7:37-50. Based on the attitudes of the day, anyone else would have castigated her and kicked her out. If we are to follow Jesus and practice WWJD, then WWJD?

  16. I guess you haven't met a lot of OTHER sinners. How about swingers, satanists, other faiths? Do we vilify them as much as gays?

    Well I DID label it a HOT BUTTON topic did I not?

    I didn't expect, I KNEW. Satan is already having a field day based on how we as Christians treat one segment of our society. Why do they, LGBT's, illicit so much hostility from us? Are we not instructed to love the unlovely?
    Division is NOT caused by sinners, it is caused by unloving people who refuse to accept ALL members of society. How many here on this thread have or do witness to gays?
    Now if you can take your words here and PUT them into practice, you will have a much different perspective on the gay community. Are they not lost also? With all due respect LOL, contributing here and then saying we shouldn't be doing this is kinda hypocritical don't you think?
  17. Stan, you asked why so many believers are against it, yet you later said you're talking about secular rights. That's comparing apples and snow tires.

    And yes, all sin is sin. Period. And we are forgiven for all, but the word "repent" doesn't mean to apologize. It means to turn away. There's a difference between making a mistake, and deliberately living in sin.

    So do you mean to say that you think someone who's deliberately living in sin is forgiven for their ongoing sin, regardless of the fact that they obviously have yet to repent?

  18. I don't have to answer that last question. You did it for me in the little bit I highlighted.
  19. Yes that's right, and why are so many believers against gays having secular/democratic rights?

    Not sure what point you tried to make here.

    Well you've kind of lost me because you have NOT quoted what you're responding to, but I'm pretty sure 1 John 1:5-10 answers this.

  20. Just wanted to see if you thought there were other boundaries other than what I pointed out.
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