Annihilationism

[Mitspa]

It's a horribly fearful place regardless. Teaching what the Bible actually says is what's important regardless of our personal feelings.

Well I agree but some issues have more value than others..and some things God has left in a place of mystery for a reason. Now again not sure why its so important that we make hell or whatever you what to call it..a less fearful place to those who have no fear of God?

 

[Major]

The devil attends every Christian church and he works to mess them up if he can. We are all work in progress. None of us is perfect yet. What do they say about finding the perfect church, once any of us attend its not perfect anymore. Just because the devil can quote scripture does not frighten me away from investigating teaching to see if it is true or not.

Now that is a good observation.

 

[Mitspa]

The devil attends every Christian church and he works to mess them up if he can. We are all work in progress. None of us is perfect yet. What do they say about finding the perfect church, once any of us attend its not perfect anymore. Just because the devil can quote scripture does not frighten me away from investigating teaching to see if it is true or not.

Whats your point? I have made mine.

 

[Major]

Well I agree but some issues have more value than others..and some things God has left in a place of mystery for a reason. Now again not sure why its so important that we make hell or whatever you what to call it..a less fearful place to those who have no fear of God?

I have said before and do so again that this is an issue born more out of the inability to accept the fate of loved ones and friends who died lost and went to hell. To ease the pain that brings, we (some of us) have come up with this idea that the lost wicked sinner who dies and goes to hell is actually consumed upon his arrival in hell. That eases the pain of remembering where his loved one is.

Actually the idea is totally alienated from the real Word of God.

 

[Major]

Understood that there were many scriptures that he posted. Why not pick just a few like whether Sheol is (or was) the abode of both the righteous and the unrighteous or which word Sheol/Hades/Gehenna best represents what you call "hell" which Ken pointed out is not in any of the original languages but is an anglosaxon word.

Or if you are saying that Ken raised some good points and you feel ill-prepared to comment at this stage then I understand that as well.

Unfortunately the tone of this thread didn't start off well. It would have been better if we could have all had a rational/logical discussion (without threats or ridicule).

And just where or when did you think that was going to happen?????

 

[Mitspa]

I have said before and do so again that this is an issue born more out of the inability to accept the fate of loved ones and friends who died lost and went to hell. To ease the pain that brings, we (some of us) have come up with this idea that the lost wicked sinner who dies and goes to hell is actually consumed upon his arrival in hell. That eases the pain of remembering where his loved one is.

Actually the idea is totally alienated from the real Word of God.

I know that hell was intended to be presented as a fearful place of torment.. I have personally used this truth to bring wicked people to repentance in Christ..

 

[Major]

Understood that there were many scriptures that he posted. Why not pick just a few like whether Sheol is (or was) the abode of both the righteous and the unrighteous or which word Sheol/Hades/Gehenna best represents what you call "hell" which Ken pointed out is not in any of the original languages but is an anglosaxon word.

Or if you are saying that Ken raised some good points and you feel ill-prepared to comment at this stage then I understand that as well.

Unfortunately the tone of this thread didn't start off well. It would have been better if we could have all had a rational/logical discussion (without threats or ridicule).

OK....lets do that.

Sheol is the Hebrew word for the place of torment.
Hades is the Greek name for the same place.

Both talk about the place of suffering where the unsaved go until they are released into the lake of fire.
It is the place described in Deut. 32:2 where the wrath of God burns all of the time.

Now, according to the Scriptures which all of a sudden everyone wants to hear from tell us that Sheol/Hades is divided into TWO areas.

1. TORMENTS
2. PARADISE.

Luke 16:19-26...........
"There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."

Well there it is plain as day.

The rich man could see Lazarus and Abraham but could not get to them.
The rich man was in torments (vs 24....I am TORMRNTED in this flame).------On going, never ending!

PARADISE is the location where Jesus told the thief he would be when he died....."TODAY you will be in PARADISE".

 

[Huntingteckel]

I have said before and do so again that this is an issue born more out of the inability to accept the fate of loved ones and friends who died lost and went to hell. To ease the pain that brings, we (some of us) have come up with this idea that the lost wicked sinner who dies and goes to hell is actually consumed upon his arrival in hell. That eases the pain of remembering where his loved one is.

Actually the idea is totally alienated from the real Word of God.

I want to believe what the Bible teaches which is why I'm not afraid to ignore man's interpretation and try to form my own. It has nothing to do with loved ones for me. If the Bible teaches ECT then that's what I have to believe, but that doesn't appear to be what it teaches.

I know that hell was intended to be presented as a fearful place of torment.. I have personally used this truth to bring wicked people to repentance in Christ..

That's one issue that's always brought up. Salvation built on fear is like a house built on sand. It has a weak foundation that won't last.

 

[Mitspa]

I want to believe what the Bible teaches which is why I'm not afraid to ignore man's interpretation and try to form my own. It has nothing to do with loved ones for me. If the Bible teaches ECT then that's what I have to believe, but that doesn't appear to be what it teaches.




That's one issue that's always brought up. Salvation built on fear is like a house built on sand. It has a weak foundation that won't last.

That's just completely unbiblical...the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom.. I see that you guys are willing to leave the truth of scripture altogether to try to promote this doctrine! How sad!

The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.

 

[Major]

I want to believe what the Bible teaches which is why I'm not afraid to ignore man's interpretation and try to form my own. It has nothing to do with loved ones for me. If the Bible teaches ECT then that's what I have to believe, but that doesn't appear to be what it teaches.




That's one issue that's always brought up. Salvation built on fear is like a house built on sand. It has a weak foundation that won't last.

It will last if it does NOT stay there my friend. The door to salvation can be opened by the Holy Spirit according to the need of the person who is lost. Once that has happened, I just like Mispha always encourage the person saved to unite with a Bible believing church so that the growth in knowledge can lead to a firmer foundation that what the fear may have opened.

 

[A263149]

OK....lets do that.

Sheol is the Hebrew word for the place of torment.
Hades is the Greek name for the same place.

Both talk about the place of suffering where the unsaved go until they are released into the lake of fire.
It is the place described in Deut. 32:2 where the wrath of God burns all of the time.

Now, according to the Scriptures which all of a sudden everyone wants to hear from tell us that Sheol/Hades is divided into TWO areas.

1. TORMENTS
2. PARADISE.

Luke 16:19-26...........
"There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."

Well there it is plain as day.

The rich man could see Lazarus and Abraham but could not get to them.
The rich man was in torments (vs 24....I am TORMRNTED in this flame).------On going, never ending!

PARADISE is the location where Jesus told the thief he would be when he died....."TODAY you will be in PARADISE".

Ok, let's see if I have this straight. Paradise is the place where some people go, to be with Abraham, and can hear the screams and torments of the sufferings of those across the chasm for ever and ever. Doesn't sound like paradise to me.

 

[MichaelH]

Are you serious? I suppose all those denominations believe in prayer, communion and any number of church doctrines. Should we stop praying because some praying churches believe in gay marriage?

Your wisdom is flawed as it's not the same thing.

There would be a very good reason why Churches who support homosexual pastors and same sex marriages would also not like to believe in eternal punishment for those that have rejected the Word of God.

Think about it.........................................

 

[Major]

That's just completely unbiblical...the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom.. I see that you guys are willing to leave the truth of scripture altogether to try to promote this doctrine! How sad!

You see Mitspha.........this is always what happens when Bible doctrine is not accepted as truth. We QUESTION the Word of God, then we change the Word of God and then we believe the lie.

It has worked since Satan temped Eve....she then asked IF that was what God really said Then she changed what God said to make it more acceptable.

BOOM! There we are today!

 

[Mitspa]

Ok, let's see if I have this straight. Paradise is the place where some people go, to be with Abraham, and can hear the screams and torments of the sufferings of those across the chasm for ever and ever. Doesn't sound like paradise to me.

Oh come on? This is your biblical logic? What does the scriptures say? Not what you want to believe!

 

[Major]

Ok, let's see if I have this straight. Paradise is the place where some people go, to be with Abraham, and can hear the screams and torments of the sufferings of those across the chasm for ever and ever. Doesn't sound like paradise to me.

That maybe because you are not spiritually discerned as you should be. Are you a saved person? Do you read the Scriptures on a regular basis?

I ask that because you are trying to change the Bible words. The Scriptures I posted do not say that the people in Paradise can hear the suffering wicked lost neither does it say that they can see them.

Look at verse 24 again......
"ABRAHAM, have mercy on me and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame".

The only one to see and hear the rich man was Lazarus!

 

[Major]

I want to believe what the Bible teaches which is why I'm not afraid to ignore man's interpretation and try to form my own. It has nothing to do with loved ones for me. If the Bible teaches ECT then that's what I have to believe, but that doesn't appear to be what it teaches.




That's one issue that's always brought up. Salvation built on fear is like a house built on sand. It has a weak foundation that won't last.

The fact my friend is that we MUST BELIEVE the Bible if we are to live and know the truth. The Bible is the WOrd of God and what we think or like or want to believe is simple not the issue. It is was God says period!!!

 

[Mitspa]

I must say that I "was" willing to listen and consider other biblical views on this subject..but seeing how some are willing to mishandle the Word in order to prove their doctrine...I must have been wrong to even have suggested that I should consider their views.. this is very sad way to handle Gods Word.

 

[MichaelH]

Oh come on? This is your biblical logic? What does the scriptures say? Not what you want to believe!

you often find the confused have no logic, or spiritual sense. Paradise was a place, and a great gulf seperated it and hell. Jesus went to hell and preached to the spirits in prison. Abraham and the rest were waiting there on the promise (Heb 11)

All sin was laid on Jesus, having not commited sin, he was made sin and went straight to hell. He said sorrow and pain encompassed me about down there. The ignorant do not see that Jesus was not just burnt up in hell, but preached and gain the keys of Hell and death over the enemy.

So those that do not believe in Eternal hell, can't believe also in the resurrection, or eternal life. The greatest thing Jesus did was buy back what the devil took, and he had to do everything and go through everything a person would have to have gone for punishment for sin. Jesus got the victory over all of it for us.

Also if hell is a place where folks just get destroyed, then Abraham did not make it as well as the others. Something else the ignorant don't consider.

Blessings.

 

[Major]

I must say that I "was" willing to listen and consider other biblical views on this subject..but seeing how some are willing to mishandle the Word in order to prove their doctrine...I must have been wrong to even have suggested that I should consider their views.. this is very sad way to handle Gods Word.

Its the old "cafeteria Christianity" approach. Pick out what you like, throw away the rest.

 

[Huntingteckel]

The fact my friend is that we MUST BELIEVE the Bible if we are to live and know the truth. The Bible is the WOrd of God and what we think or like or want to believe is simple not the issue. It is was God says period!!!

You think just because someone disagrees with you they are wrong. I have no use for a discussion with someone who refuses to even watch the sermon that Ken was nice enough to put on here for us. Continue in your bigotry.