I think that is an interesting discussion to have. C.S. Lewis said that he believed Hell is locked from the inside. But his views on Hell are not exactly "orthodox" either. The trouble I have with the "self-inflicted" view is that it seems to imply the possibility that someone could choose to leave hell as soon as they get tired of the self-inflicted torment. Or that they could stay there, but stop inflicting punishment on themselves. As an arminian, I do agree that people go to hell of their own freewill. But after that decision is made, I don't think they could continue to be free to self-inflict their own punishment. I think the casting into hell itself is the punishment.No, me either.
It seems every body is discussing eternal punishment (by the Lord) versus ahhh I suppose purgatory.
I'm thinking none are correct (only I have the truth)
What if eternal torment is self inflicted? The Lord has done everything,..... more that we deserve to bring us forgiveness and reconciliation. When a person rejects the grace of God, and finally sees the cost of his life choices, and knowing that finally the door is shut and bolted, that would be torment. But it is self inflicted torment and it is eternal in duration.
Annihilationism
- Thread starter Huntingteckel
- Start date
- Status
I'm thinking none are correct (only I have the truth)
On hell I am sure many think like that!Annihilationists = can't see God making people suffer for eternity = good God
Universalists = can't see God making people suffer for eternity = good God
It is safer to err on the side of God being good, as God is good. Everyone just fails imho in grasping that free will is good. Leaving people with their decision is good. The devil will never feel at home in Heaven. God is good to make him and his ilk a home.
There we go. All solved, I am right.
Annihilationists = can't see God making people suffer for eternity = good God
Universalists = can't see God making people suffer for eternity = good God
It is safer to err on the side of God being good, as God is good. Everyone just fails imho in grasping that free will is good. Leaving people with their decision is good. The devil will never feel at home in Heaven. God is good to make him and his ilk a home.
There we go. All solved, I am right.
The idea that free will alone would have the wicked suffer forever only works if people are naturally immortal (otherwise God keeps them alive in order for them to suffer...)
The idea that free will alone would have the wicked 'suffer' forever is madness, period.
People are naturally immortal. Not sure what you meaning that it is then justified?
Not sure we on the same page here. Sorry bud, I have not read your other posts.
Sorry, I'll try to be clearer.
First, surely people living forever without God would suffer. Even the life we live now, tainted by sin as it is, would be horrible to live forever (in my opinion anyway).
People are not naturally immortal- eternal life is a gift to those who believe (try searching immortality at www.biblegateway.com in any translation and you'll see it always refers to the righteous, and is something we should seek. The idea of the immortality of the soul comes from Plato, not the Bible.
For the record, no, I don't think free will justifies eternal suffering. But I do believe that living forever without God would be eternal suffering (and as I said the only way free will would be an argument for remaining in that state would be if we were naturally immortal).
Huntingteckel
Inactive
Darn it, man! I keep typing three sentences and then your posts pop up saying what I'm saying but better!
MichaelH
Inactive
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
(Act 3:23)
I need the soul destroyed in hell Ken................ Not from among the People. I also need the spirit of man destoryed in Hell to make a doctrine.
Also Ken, the Word "Soul" was not used exclusively just for hell.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Here souls get tribulation and Anguish Ken..................
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Here living souls died in the sea Ken............... Not hell or the lake of fire.
How in the world can that happen Ken............. OH MY!!!!!! Is it the soul died then sunk into Hell and got burned up?? What is going on here by the use of the Word soul?
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Yes Ken, the soul is something we work on here and now.............. Not when someone lands both feet in hell............... Compare scriptures KEN!!!!! Your not good enough to get past me on anything.
Yes, I know Ken, we all need someone to hold our hands don't we.
Now, explain what you did not make clear in the video.................. The smoke of their torment who get thrown in the Lake of fire is Eis Aion, Aion.............
One more thing Ken.............
A persons spirit gets born again............ Basic Christianity 101. We can used the term saved souls........ but once again the bible interchanges soul for people, and the actual soul of a person. We know that our soul needs to be transformed by the Word.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Steven and Jesus both committed their spirit unto the Lord.................. Not soul as the soul is the mind, will and emotion of man that needs renewed and can be intact in Heaven as you stated.
It's our spirit that connects to the Holy Spirit.............
Act 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
People serve God with their spirit............. it's how God directs us.
Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Rom 12:11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
Man is a spirit being: God puts a spirit in each man.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Our spirit man is the life force of our body:
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Paul was concerned about what being saved ken???
I have not herd you cover the spirit of man Ken, Paul was not concerned about the soul of the man but believed as in James we can perserve who we are. We are spirit beings, without our spirit our body dies, it's through our spirit the Holy Spirit talks to us, not our soul.
Explain for the rest of the folks Ken your scripture about what happens to the Human spirit in Hell....................................
I would like to hear this knowing you have ZERO scriptures to explain it.
amazing.............. just over the top..
Explain for the rest of the folks Michael your scripture about what happens to the human spirit in Hell...............................
I suspect you also have ZERO scriptures to explain it.
So what should we conclude? That God wasn't clear about what happens to the wicked (body, soul and spirit) after judgement? I don't think so, and I would suggest that you get off your high horse and have another look at all the scripture Ken has quoted!!!
Huntingteckel
Inactive
Michael, you were beaten long ago by Ken. You just don't see it. Now you're resorting to saying Jesus never spoke of hell just to avoid saying he has a point...
MichaelH
Inactive
I have responded to all of Kens scriptures. There is Zero scripture denoting a spirit can be destroyed, even an angelic spirit.
You can all say what you like, but nobody has refuted one scripture I have brought to the table. I am willing to hear and learn, but I need that conclusive evidence that is not there to just decided the soul and spirit get burned up....... The flesh body never makes it to hell, it stays in the ground.
Now if my understanding of a scripture is messed up and I have not taken the time to compare scriptures then please bring it up.
Huntingteckel
Inactive
Does this mean you give up?
So you suppose that part of a person is immortal- do you have any scripture to prove that?
(on another subject, I reported your previous message to Ken for how insulting and condescending it was. You might want to think about toning it down a little, and remembering that a fellow human being is going to read your response!)
By the way, you haven't answered my own post showing that the wicked fully die in the lake of fire.
I have not widely read CS Lewis.
I differ in any event insofar as if 'The Gates of Hell' refer to literal gates and not 'seat of authority', then those gates/doors would be locked from the outside not the inside.
No, I don't believe you are "off"...just retiring for the remainder of your night
It is or it should be clear to even the most deeply entrenched combatant here that you are trying to bring peace to this thread.
As Jesus said, "blessed are the peace makers...."
Be blessed Olivia.
Not only is there a fair Biblical case for it, I believe the Bible explicitly teaches it
How does
fit your requirement?
What part of us is in the image of God?...just asking.
Huntingteckel
Inactive
I was almost there when I started the thread but now I'm a believer. I was just waiting for something to tip me over the edge.
I was almost there when I started the thread but now I'm a believer. I was just waiting for something to tip me over the edge.
I used to hold the ECT view but came to see that there are to many passages that teach otherwise.
There are many reasons, some take a more in depth study than others but the simplest reason is the amount of clear passages of Scripture that state it
- Status