And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet...

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Wheelz, Oct 24, 2014.

  1. “Babylon”….the flattering tongue of men….is responsible for ALL of the slain upon the earth. The LIFE of Jesus is not being made manifest in the flesh of their followers as they flatter men for money. They wrest the Scriptures unto the destruction of the flesh…preaching things that they ought not for money’s sake. The world has not been saved because of what is going on in the churches….for we are supposed to be the Light of the world in Christ. ALL of the world is being “slain” because of “her” flattering tongue by which they have enriched themselves with.

    Revelation 18:
    (24) And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

    They do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ but their own belly and by good words and fair speeches do they deceive the hearts of the simple and lead them upon that wide path to the destruction of the flesh…..preventing the LIFE of Jesus from being made manifest in their mortal flesh which would give them “eternal life” in the here and now.

    Romans 16:
    (17) Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
    (18) For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

    The simple fall prey to the flattering tongues of men (the “strange woman”) as they lead them away from keeping His commandments so that we may truly LIVE (having the life of Jesus being made manifest in our mortal bodies).

    Proverbs 7:
    (1) My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.
    (2) Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.
    (3) Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart.
    (4) Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:

    They speak flattering words in order to deceive the hearts of the simple…and the simple believe EVERY word that they say and are led astray from the narrow path of righteousness and into their envying, strife and destruction of the flesh.

    (5) That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words.
    (6) For at the window of my house I looked through my casement,
    (7) And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,
    (8) Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,
    (9) In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:

    They put on a show but there is deceit in their hearts. They are on every corner…lying in wait to deceive and bring you into their congregations of death.

    (10) And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.
    (11) (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:
    (12) Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.)
    (13) So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him,
    (14) I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows.

    They come forth to “diligently seek our faces”….an aggressive recruiting for you to join their churches.

    (15) Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.
    (16) I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt.
    (17) I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon.
    (18) Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with lov

    Jesus is gone away they say. They deny that Jesus comes in our mortal flesh. They put His coming to us later… the appointed day….when His life is supposed to be made manifest in our mortal flesh in the here and now. They preach their covenant with death and their agreement with the grave ….when in reality death is AN ENEMY and not a friend.

    (19) For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey:
    (20) He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed.

    With good words and fair speeches do they bring many into their church bondage of men’s commandments and doctrines where they decay away to the grave by those who preach for money and say “let us be merry” and eat and drink for tomorrow we die.

    (21) With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.
    (22) He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;
    (23) Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.
    (24) Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.
    (25) Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths

    MANY, MANY have been slain by the flattering tongues of men.

    (26) For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.
    (27) Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

    But our Lord has mercy upon us and calls us out from among them so that we may be saved. We are to be delivered from wicked and unreasonable men who will speak evil of what they do not understand.

    They have enlarged their desire for money as the grave and are as death and cannot be satisfied. They suppose that gain is godliness and continue to seek after it by building large denominations, large ministries, large congregations, large bank accounts, etc. They gather more and more people unto themselves…. “heaping unto him all people”.

    Habakkuk 2:

    (4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
    (5) Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:

    But the people will “wake” up and see the Truth of the whole matter. Woe to him that increases that which is not his! They laden themselves with “thick clay”….heaping up all people to themselves as we are the “clay”. We are the “clay” that perishes away without the life of Jesus being made manifest in our mortal flesh as many have died under their “pastoring”. They have spoiled many people…’s blood has been shed for the Word of Truth is not being preached unto them as they make us their prey. We shall awake and leave their congregations…their churches of death where the clay has piled up under their “care”.

    (6) Shall not all these take up a parable against him, and a taunting proverb against him, and say, Woe to him that increaseth that which is not his! how long? and to him that ladeth himself with thick clay!
    (7) Shall they not rise up suddenly that shall bite thee, and awake that shall vex thee, and thou shalt be for booties unto them?

    (8) Because thou hast spoiled many nations, all the remnant of the people shall spoil thee; because of men's blood, and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.
    (9) Woe to him that coveteth an evil covetousness to his house, that he may set his nest on high, that he may be delivered from the power of evil!

    They have CUT OFF many people from this earth as the life of Jesus has not been made manifest in the flesh of their followers as they have been led astray from keeping His commandments.

    (10) Thou hast consulted shame to thy house by cutting off many people, and hast sinned against thy soul.

    God is NOT MOCKED…for if we sow to the flesh, we shall also reap decay of the mortal flesh. We can not sit with them or we are ONE FLESH with them in their covetous pursuits and in their envying and strife are perishing away to the grave.

    Galatians 7:
    (7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
    (8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
    (9) And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

    We become ONE FLESH with them when we sit in their company….where the flesh and body are consumed and then we die.

    Prov 5:
    (8) Remove thy way far from her, and come not nigh the door of her house:
    (9) Lest thou give thine honour unto others, and thy years unto the cruel:
    (10) Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger;
    (11) And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed,
    (12) And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;
    (13) And have not obeyed the voice of my teachers, nor inclined mine ear to them that instructed me!

    MANY people will RUN from them when they understand. Their covenant with death shall be disannulled and their agreement with the grave shall not stand as their followers shall hear and depart from them. They will be trodden down by the people leaving their company.

    Isaiah 28:
    (18) And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
    (19) From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
    (20) For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
    (21) For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
    (22) Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
    (23) Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech.

    A stampede is coming….and the wicked shall be ashes under the sole of our feet as we shall quickly depart from their company like calves released from the stall. They shall mourn and lament that no one will “buy” what they are “selling” any more.

    Malachi 4:
    (1) For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
    (2) But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

    (3) And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
  2. I've never heard that "Babylon" refers to "flattering tongues of men", so that is very interesting. "Babylon" is derived from the word "Babel", which literally means "Gate to God" ("Bab" = "gate"; "el" = "God"). Of course, "confusion" is the reason that God chose to name the place "Babel" after He confused their tongues, but it is very important to recognize that the meaning of the word and the reason for God's choosing of it are both INTRINSICALLY TIED. The people had already fallen into the greatest confusion into which one can fall - the idea that heaven may be entered through a gate of one's own choosing - and God's judgment upon them was not only a means to an end - the scattering of the people - but a warning of the utter failure that awaits those who seek to enter heaven on their own terms. Sadly, the majority of the world's religious systems have failed to heed the warning:
    • The Baha'i faith, the most widely represented at the U.N., incorporates "Babs", or "gates" - the "mystical masters" among which Jesus is equal.
    • Shi'ite Islam claims that before the "Twelfth Imam returns to usher in a new age", intermediate "Babs" are to lead the faith.
    • Far Eastern religious systems claim "Enlightenment", "Oneness", and other such ideas are achieved by our own efforts.
    • Roman Catholicism has as their leader the Pontiff Maximus - the "Supreme Bridgebuilder"- who is the bridge between Earth and Heaven and provides the way by which Christians may enter heaven by having their guilt ritualistically removed from them while enabling them to continue in sin.
    • Judaism of today is the same false system that Jesus condemned, though modified due to a lack of temple and its services.
    • Apostate Protestantism claims that Christians are powerless to overcome sin so they have manufactured a gate that says Jesus merely removes their guilt as they continue in sin.
    The True and Only Gate is Jesus, and to Him each of us must remain continually surrendered moment by moment, day by day, if we are to "have a right to the Tree of Life and may enter into the gates to the city." Should any of us step out from under the blood of Jesus that covers our guilt by willfully setting ourselves on a course of deliberate sin, the Good Shepherd stands calling us back into the fold and will freely forgive us and receive us if we repent.
    Silk and Major say Amen and like this.
  3. Thanks Phoneman777 for pointing out the meanings of Babylon. I did not know that “Babylon” had the meaning of “gate of God” in addition to “confusion”. Very interesting!

    Certainly, God has used “Babylon” as an instrument to punish those who do not abide in the doctrine of Christ: to have love for one another. If we do not abide in Him, then men “gather” us and we are cast into the “fire” and are burned. Our mortal bodies “burn” up in the wrath of God and our spirit rises back to God who gave it. They gather us up with the flattering tongue….Babylon….which confuses those who hear her speaking good words and fair speeches.

    John 15:3-6 KJV

    (3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
    (4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
    (5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
    (6) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burne

    She has been a golden cup in Jehovah’s hand that made all the earth “drunken”. She has been used as an instrument of judgment.

    Jeremiah 51:
    (7) Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

    But in due time, Babylon “falls”….for God has mercy upon us.

    (8) Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.

    I am thinking that the “gate of God” is the “mouth of God” which speaks His Word via the Spirit of Truth and enables those who are living in “Babylon”….under the influence of the flattering tongues of men….to wake up and leave “her”. When we leave, the flattering tongue “falls” and becomes a place for every unclean word spoken against us.

    They will “burn” with anger and speak evil against us for leaving them. They will use every “foul breath” to speak evil words to vilify us.

    Revelation 18:
    (1) And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
    (2) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
    (3) For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
    (4) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

    Their sins will have reached heaven. This could be seen as the “tower” that was built in Genesis that the people leave off from building when God comes down to “confound” their speech.

    (5) For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
    (6) Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
    (7) How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
    (8) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her

    The “tower” whose top may reach heaven may be the sin Babylon reaching her utmost limit.

    Genesis 11:
    (4) And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

    The Spirit descends to overflow (“confound”) the language of Babylon’s builders so that they may leave off from building it any longer.

    (7) Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

    “Let us go down”= the Spirit descends upon us so that we may preach His Word in Truth. It “confounds” those who will hear it...the "sound from heaven".

    Acts 2:
    (1) And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
    (2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
    (3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
    (4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    (5) And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

    Those that heard it were "confounded"....

    (6) Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

    (7) And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
    (8) And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

    Interesting similarities exist also in Genesis 28. There is a ladder set up on the earth and the top of it reached to heaven.

    Genesis 28:
    (10) And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran.
    (11) And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.

    The “angels” of God are the words of all the biblical saints spoken through the Spirit via the Son of man.

    (12) And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.
    (13) And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

    When we hear the Spirit speaking, we are to awake and leave Babylon….and be scattered throughout the earth where we are to preach to the “families of the earth” who shall be blessed in the Seed....Christ.

    (14) And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
    (15) And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

    The “gate of heaven” is the mouth that speaks the Word of God in Truth. When we hear His voice, we “awake” out of our sleep. We worship God with the words of our mouth….the “angels” ascending the ladder.

    (16) And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not.
    (17) And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.

    Just thinking out loud here about the similarities.
    Phoneman777 likes this.
  4. "Flattering tongues", "fair speeches", and "smooth sayings" are the most seductive means by which men are deceived and Babylon utilizes these very tactics in the last days:
    One of the two women of Revelation is named "Babylon". Since a woman in prophecy represents a church, it is easy to see that the pure woman of Rev 12 represents both the OT "church that was in the wilderness" (according to Stephen in Acts 7 ) and the New Testament church as well - and - the harlot woman of Rev 17 represents an apostate church (just as God referred to idolatrous Israel as a harlot with a "whore's forehead". The wine of Babylon reveals what the end time deception is all about, and like most prophecy symbols, we have to go to the OT to find out what they mean. Isaiah 29:9-13 says:

    Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink...Forasmuch as this people draw near Me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear toward Me is taught by the precept of men."
    The precepts, or commandments, of men is the wine with which Babylon is making the nations drunk! Jesus confirms this in Matthew 15 when the Pharasees rebuked Him for disregarding their man-made law of hand-washing during mealtime and He exposed their hypocrisy by pointing out that they gave a pass to those who would break God's commandment to "honor thy father and mother" in order to advance the wealth of the temple. He then quoted Isaiah 29:

    "This people draweth nigh unto Me with their mouth and do honor Me with their lips. In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

    The commandments are actually the crux of the issue in the last days, for Revelation 12:17 says the devil goes to make war with those that "keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus". Also, when the Bible speaks of those who take the Mark of the Beast in Revelation 14 and wind up paying the price for having done so, the angel directs John's attention to those who refused the Mark and says "here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God (the ten commandments) and have the faith of Jesus." If those who reject the Mark are said to be keeping God's ten commandments, then it stands to reason that those who accept the Mark must be breaking God's ten commandments. Babylon is certainly good at convincing people to do just that.
  5. Phoneman and you believe that the gospel of God's grace will change during the Tribulation period to one of "Works" combined with the acceptance of Grace?

    Wouldn't refusing the Mark be a kind of "work" ???
    Silk likes this.
  6. Hello Silk!!!! Good to see your comment!!!!
  7. #7 Phoneman777, Nov 1, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
    Hey bro! I'm a post-trib rapture guy and I believe that the OT is the key to prophecy: In the case of the Israelites, they could repent up to the point until the High Priest completed his work of cleansing the Sanctuary which ended when he walked out of the Most Holy Place, passed through the Holy Place, walked through the Outer Court, and exited to the waiting throngs of Israelites.

    In the same way, when our High Priest of the Heavenly Sanctuary, Jesus, exits and declares "let him who is unjust and filthy be so still and him who is righteous and holy be so still", it is at that point that the Door of Mercy that swings on the Hinges of Grace slams SHUT and probation closes forever for sinners. He will remove His High Priestly robes of Intercession and put on His Kingly robes and crown or Royalty and return with the armies of heaven to the Earth where it is then we'll hear the trumpet sound and see the dead in Christ rise to new life and ascend to Jesus along with the living saints, to the shock and horror of the unsaved who will join their fellow deceased rebels in death and sleep a thousand years until such time as they arise in the Second Resurrection, are judged, sentenced, and then executed in the Second Death from which they will never be any resurrection.

    In other words, just as the fate of the rebellious Antediluvians was sealed when God shut the door of the Ark a full 8 days before the first drops of water began to flood the ground, and in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah where the inhabitants were condemned before the angels even arrived to Lot's house, so the wicked will be hopelessly condemned while Jesus and the hosts of heaven are en route back to Earth in the Second Coming to carry out their work of evacuation and destruction which was begun by the Seven Last Plagues. This will leave alive and bound in "chains of circumstance" for that thousand year sleep of the wicked the devil and his angels in an Earth that will revert back to being without form and void, where Satan can contemplate the results of his rebellion that started so long before in the Heavenly courts, which will finally come to an end at the end of the thousand years when sin and sinners are destroyed in the fire that comes down from God out of Heaven and destroys them out of existence. He then will proceed to create a New Heavens and New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness" where there shall not be found death, mourning, sorrow, crying or any more pain "for the former things are passed away".
  8. And since their fate is sealed, and it's the whole world, like Noah, then how can worldwide wrath come with us here? Noah was put into a boat that floats during a worldwide flood wrath. Lot was removed from the city so it could be destroyed in wrath. What's going to happened to us? How can God do the same worldwide warth with us still here? Billions are going to die just like before because this wrath is fire, not water. It's only logical that if you believe in any rapture, that there is a pre-trib, and TWO post-trib, yes three raptures, four if you count the Two Witnesses. Read your scriptures. They're all spelled out, you just have to open your eyes to see.
    Silk likes this.
  9. #9 Phoneman777, Nov 2, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
    Bro, if you think that an ancient wooden vessel was able to withstand the unbelievable violence that was the Deluge where the very Granites that form the superstructure of the Earth were thrust up here where they shouldn't be instead of remaining down there where they should be resulting in the deadly tectonic activity we see today, the tidal forces and giganitic waves, the Paleocurrent evidence that shows that entire continents were washed over, the massive Turbidites that formed the huge layers of the Geological column, eruptions from the fountains of the great deep bursting forth - forces so powerful that they knocked the Earth off its axis and left Satan in fear of his very existence - without the assistance of angels that excel in strength to keep the Ark intact, you should probably rethink that. The Ark would have not survived otherwise. The Israelites were spared the 7 last plagues; the Red Sea provided safety to Israel but a watery grave for their enemies; Jesus prayed that we'd not be taken out of the world, but be protected from the evil to come; an entire Psalm 91 which speaks of the destruction of the wicked not coming near us though we see with our own eyes thousands and ten thousands falling all around us on every side; the Israelites were spared having to suffer the 7 Last Plagues while remaining in Egypt.

    Take heart, my brother, Jesus knows exactly how to preserve us through the coming tribulation. After all, do not the wind and waves obey His voice?
  10. The only rapture I read about in the Bible is the one that takes place "in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump" which all takes place when "the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ rise first, then we..shall be caught up"; this "trump of God" is so called because Zechariah 9:14 says "the Lord God shall blow the trumpet." If you find evidence for another "secret rapture" or any such thing, I'd like to see the verses.

    BTW, Zechariah tells us what the symbol of the Two Witnesses are, and they are NOT the literal Moses and Elijah, for both men have received immortality and are no longer subject to death.
  11. Excellent observation!
  12. I disagree. The fact that the Bible says the Ark prevailed is all the proof one needs to know that it in fact did.
    Abdicate likes this.
  13. I really do not think that if you were shown the would accept them. So what would be the point?

    Wait.......I did post those Scriptures for you already. See......You were shown and did not accept.

    Personally, IMO the "POST" tribulation resurrection theology is the weakest of all the theories. It is the one that has less logic applied to it than all the others combined. BUT that is just my opinion.

    The "PRE-Tribulation" resurrection (Rapture, Catching Away) is the one that makes the most logical sense and the one that allows for ALL Bible Prophecy to fit together perfectly.
    Silk likes this.
  14. I don't dispute the fact the the Ark prevailed, only that it did so without Divine intervention, for the reasons given above.
    I accept all Scriptures shown me, just not erroneous interpretations of them. They teach that the rapture of the saints occurs when the Lord descends from heaven with a shout, voice, and trumpet of God, and only those with an undying devotion for Jesuit Futurism will deny the plain words of Paul in 1 Thess. 4:16-18.
  15. As we have before, I will have to disagree with you yet once again. Not on the tremendous activity that the flood brought. The experts say that it was a great upheaval. Doing a little homework on this I found that "The Flood" was accompanied by violent movements of the earth's crust and by volcanic activity of momentous proportions. Tremendous tidal waves and rushing currents scoured and deeply eroded the continental surface. Entire forests were ripped up and transported large distances to be dumped where the currents slowed. (Kofahl and Segraves, p. 226)

    I have no problem at all believing that.

    Even after the first forty days, when the greatest of the rains and upheavals diminished, the Scriptures say that the waters "prevailed" upon the earth for one hundred and ten days longer. This statement . . . would certainly imply that extensive hydraulic and sedimentary activity continued for a long time, with many earlier flood deposits perhaps re-eroded and reworked . . . . The only way in which land could now appear again would be for a tremendous orogeny to take place. Mountains must arise and new basins must form to receive the great overburden of water imposed upon the earth. (Whitcomb and Morris, pp. 266-267).

    Again, I have no problem at all believing that as well.

    For once we can agree that creationist rhetoric has not been exaggerated. A cataclysm that could accomplish the largest percentage of the geological activity in earth's history in one year—events that uniformitarians assign to billions of years—would be so overwhelming that we cannot begin to imagine what it would be like. Yet into the jaws of destruction sailed a rickety wooden boat—oversized, leaky and unsound, carrying a cargo whose safety and protection was all important! That fact alone tells me that It was utterly inconceivable that it could have survived even a few days of this maelstrom without being blasted to splinters—unless it was protected by the unceasing intervention of God almighty.
  16. Bro, I love it when we agree and I certainly do so with you here regarding the cataclysmic power of the flood. That which can be its only rival shall be what Peter describes will take place at the end in chap. 3 of his second epistle.
    Major likes this.
  17. You don't agree, fine, but I never said "Moses" or "Elijah", so don't put words in my mouth. I quoted the scriptures. Besides, Moses DIED, he can't die again. Only Elijah and Enoch are living in heaven without having tasted death.
  18. Question Ab.......Do you think the two witnesses in Revelation will be Enoch and Elijah who God somehow allows to come back from heaven for the purpose of dieing?

    Just curious.
    Silk likes this.
  19. You read my mind, Major!! I came back to ask that very question. It had me pondering the possibility for the 1st time. Well I did think of Elijah before but never Enoch.
    Major likes this.
  20. Elijah and Enoch are the only two people to never have died. They were Raptured as it were to heaven.

    I was curious as to what Abdicate thought?

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