An honest question to cessationists

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Mykuhl, May 15, 2015.

  1. I agree but we can move on to another thread and another focus. It is obviously a false teaching and more discussion is only going to lead to frustration.

    I am done and am moving on.
     
    Silk likes this.
  2. It's always the other person isn't it Euphemia.
     
  3. Yes, when something is not clearly laid out in scripture, it is up to us to grasp the meaning. But it can either be opinion or it can be truth. It is opinion if the meaning is derived using our own intellect, it becomes absolute truth if the Holy Spirit gives the meaning. This includes truth about all the topics you mentioned.

    In your hypothetical example: yes, there is a possibility that Euphemia is wrong, if in fact what she is teaching did not come from the Holy Spirit. If this is the case then yes, she is giving a false teaching.

    Personally when it comes to truth, I call a spade a spade. If I KNOW something to be wrong for a fact then I say it is wrong. There are many different ways of saying this though, most of which would most likely not be against the rules. Saying something is an opinion is different than saying something is a fact, so no, it is not a different way of saying the same thing.
     
  4. My beliefs do not contradict scripture. No one really NEEDS to pray in tongues, but it is a wonderful gift God gives us and He loves it when we are intimate with Him in that way. It is empowering and edifying to us, which is why he gives us such a special gift.
     
  5. What is a false teaching? Can you prove it?
     
  6. In this instance, it seems to be that way.
     
  7. And if your Holy Spirit and mine disagree? Because often people on forums seem to think their opinion is the Holy Spirit's. That's when you go to scripture. If you have to ignore some scriptures in order to justify your point then I am going to say so. Both Abdicate & Euphemia indicate it is a private language. Paul says Tongues is for the unbeliever and prophesy for the believer. Paul knew like 6 languages...when he prayed in tongues - does that say private to you or that he prayed in different languages? The Pentecost is clear - the apostles were speaking in man made languages. Scripture talks about getting the message out - not a priviledged language that no one, even the speaker understood. The church at Corinth was misusing tongues. And to me it is fairly clear they were doing it to prove they were favored in front of other believers. And using this filled with the Spirit and tongues as the "sign" leads to what exactly? Anything good? The only times I have seen it spoken of seems to be that " I am so filled with the Spirit that you aren't and therefore wrong and I am right." This is done for other people - God already knows your heart and if you are right or wrong. It's for the audience. Nowhere in scripture does it say God loves you to pray in tongues. All of scripture was written so you would understand. If scripture contradicts your interpetation then re-examine your interpetation. We all want to be God's favorites - that what we do pleases Him. Scripture verifies and validates all other scripture. It doesn't always say what we want it to say.
     
  8. Paul describes both manifestations of tongues: private prayer and public prophetic.

    Public Gift of Tongues
    1. Spoken with interpretation to the church (Equal to prophecy-1 Corinthians 14:5)

    2. To be interpreted (1 Corinthians 14:5)

    3. Edifies the church (when interpreted-1 Corinthians 14:4-5)

    4. A sign to unbelievers, pointing to Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 14:22)


    Personal Prayer Tongues
    1. Spoken privately to God (1 Corinthians 14:2)

    2. No interpretation necessary (1 Corinthians 14:28)

    3. Edifies the individual believer (1 Corinthians 14:4)

    4. Can be manifested when no unbelievers are present (Acts 10:46; 19:6)

    5. Should be desired and practiced by Christians (Mark 16:17; 1 Corinthians 14:5; Ephesians 6:18; Jude 1:20 ).
     
    Cturtle, Abdicate, CCW95A and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  9. Euphemia? Your verse contradicts what Paul says. He doesn't equate tongues with prophesy - he says prophesy is greater than tongues. It is you adding what isn't there (again). He told people to not speak in tongues in church unless there was someone there who understood the language spoken. It is you who is adding no interpetation needed in private....it's not written that way. And (again) you contradict Paul saying that tongues is for the unbeliever. You cannot reconcile it so you keep sculpting scripture to have it say what you want. You say your interpetation does not contradict scripture and when it is pointed out, you ignore and repeat out of context scripture.
     
  10. Yes, when tongues is interpreted to the assembly, it IS prophecy! What you are doing is reading your bias into the word.

    I hope you realize that not everyone who is given the gift of interpretation actually understands the language spoken. Rather, he or she knows what that one person has said by the grace of God.

    How on earth do I contradict Paul again? Tongues is a SIGN for the unbeliever that points to Jesus Christ for salvation.

    Keep on studying, Silk!
     
  11. I always keep studying. Because I don't know it all. But I make certain that my foundations are true. You accuse me of bias but when I did an in-depth investigation with a lot of different sources and compared it to scripture, I made sure of my foundations. It matters not to me whether tongues use is legitimate today or not. I note without bias that scripture describes a different speaking in tongues. I'm never going to get over that God would need to speak to the Holy Spirit in a language I don't understand as an excuse for not saying my prayers. That goes against all scripture....no tongues to prophets, no tongues designated to Christ. I can buy you need it as a sign and feel wonderful doing it. I store my treasures in heaven ...I believe.
    Mat_6:19
    Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
    Mat_6:20
    But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:)
     
  12. Then either "my" Holy Spirit or "yours" is wrong and it really isn't the Holy Spirit giving the understanding/revelation. OR we were both given the truth and we just aren't seeing how both fit together(that does happen sometimes). I believe in only one truth, so because of that someone has to be wrong if what is being debating truly are opposites.
     
    Silk likes this.
  13. Just using your post Mykuhl for you responded to and also said some things.
    There is yet another side to this argument ..................some times and this is far to many times. GOOD CHRISTIANS God Fearing and God Loving Christians simply do not se it or see something or understand something and quickly claim false. Now then as I said there is a flip side to all of this............All to much of the time it is SIMPLY THAT THEY HAVE NOT EVER RECEIVED REVELATIONAL KNOWLEDGE OF THIS FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT.
     
    Cturtle and Mykuhl say Amen and like this.
  14. Seems to me that you have already said you do not need tongues nor want them. So then why would you get them? God is not going to force this on any one. You said ....I'm never going to get over that God would need to speak to the Holy Spirit in a language I don't understand as an excuse for not saying my prayers. That goes against all scripture....no tongues to prophets, no tongues designated to Christ. I can buy you need it as a sign and feel wonderful doing it. I store my treasures in heaven ...I believe.

    One that has been twisted......No one has said it replaces saying prayers or anything close to this. God created this language and has given it to us. When we have no words or understanding of what to pray then the praying in the spirit prays for us and YES if we desire the understanding we can pray and ask for it and it will be given.

    It is things like
    I can buy you need it as a sign and feel wonderful doing it. I store my treasures in heaven ...I believe.
    What reason would you have to say this ? How does this fit or help ? You are correcting some one and yet do the same very things all to often. If you do not agree then woe unto those who said it.

    All I am saying is maybe give it a rest before it causes the thread to be closed.
    Have a blessed day
    Jim
     
  15. Or one thinks they have understanding and has not ever gained a true revelational understanding..........
     
    Euphemia likes this.
  16. Both kinds of tongues is described and practiced in scripture. If you choose to "never get over" something that God desires for His children, then not even the Holy Spirit can convince you of the truth of it. That you have somehow considered tongues as some sort of "excuse for not saying your prayers" is very strange and not an idea that has come from God. So, where does it come from?
     
  17. Apparently @Fish Catcher Jim, you think that my deciding that tongues used today doesn't match scripture gives me a bias. I say what I think is true, not what I don't think is true. Hiding my treasures in heaven does fit and is scriptural. I don't need tongues to sign I am full of the Holy Spirit. I believe without sign. That is also scriptural. I have heard tongues spoken and it's not a pretty language. Google it. I have heard clips from the 40's all the way to within the last year. I have no reason to think either you or Euphemia are not loving Christians. But I have seen where Word of Faith/Prosperity/charismatics leads. You get things like "drunk in the Spirit" special "annointing" and "Holy Spirit Hokey Pokey". I will remind you hokey pokey comes from hocus pocus - a magical occult phrase.
     
  18. What does the word of God say? That's what matters. :)
     
    Silk, Fish Catcher Jim and Euphemia says Amen and like this.
  19. ACTS 2:1-4

    1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one
    place.
    2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it
    filled all the house where they were sitting.
    3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of
    them.
    4 And THEY WERE ALL FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, AND BEGAN TO SPEAK WITH
    OTHER TONGUES, AS THE SPIRIT GAVE THEM UTTERANCE.


    ACTS 1:44-46

    44 While Peter yet spake these words, THE HOLY GHOST FELL ON ALL THEM which
    heard the word.
    45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with
    Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.
    46 For they heard them SPEAK WITH TONGUES, and magnify God....

    ACTS 19:1-7

    1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through
    the upper coasts came to Eph-esus: and finding certain disciples,
    2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said
    unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
    3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's
    baptism.
    4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the
    people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ
    Jesus.5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, THE HOLY GHOST CAME ON THEM;
    and THEY SPAKE WITH TONGUES, and prophesied.
    7 And all the men were about twelve.

    ACTS 8:14-18

    14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the
    word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
    15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy
    Ghost:
    16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of
    the Lord Jesus.)
    17 Then laid they their hands on them, and THEY RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST.
    18 And WHEN SIMON SAW that through laying on of the apostles' hands THE HOLY
    GHOST WAS GIVEN,
    he offered them money.


    there had to be some kind of physical evidence that Simon's recognized with his physical senses for him to know that the Samaritans had received the Holy Spirit. It is only reasonable to assume that it was the same evidence of believers receiving the Holy Spirit that is recorded else where in the Scriptures, that is, speaking in tongues.

    ACTS 9:17

    17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him
    said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou
    camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and BE FILLED with the Holy
    Ghost. "

    Paul said....

    "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all" (1 Cor. 14:18).
     
    Abdicate and Euphemia say Amen and like this.
  20. The things you say that are negative about one of the precious gifts of Holy Spirit are dangerous and are detrimental to you. You've allowed yourself to be influenced by negative, not-so-pretty hype. How sad.
     

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