An honest question to cessationists

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Mykuhl, May 15, 2015.

  1. I just want to know if cessationists believe that the Holy Spirit gives personal revelation about scripture to believers today? Do you guys believe that the Spirit gives you understanding and explains the scriptures to you so that you understand them correctly?

    I am asking in here because I can't seem to find the answer online. I am not looking to turn this into a debate about the topic.

    Francis Drake likes this.
  2. Hi Mykuhl, Why go looking among the dead for answers concerning the living ?
    Actually YES The Holy Spirit gives us revelational knowledge of Gods Written word. This is how God Designed His word to be. It is hidden from mans thinking. Ok man can getsome basic truth but the real meat and life is hidden from human thinking and that is why those who rely on a theological view of understanding His word limit God and have a dificult time believing things that are actually written and taught in His word.

    God Bless
    Juk, Cturtle and Euphemia says Amen and like this.
  3. #3 Mykuhl, May 16, 2015
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
    Hah! Jim, I am not asking in in order to receive answer about what you are mentioning . I am asking because I want to understand what they believe on this point in order for me to understand cessastionists better.
  4. ? your question doesn't make much sense.
    If I'm thinking what I think you talking about...that gifts or tongues have ceased - is it that scripture in 1 Corinthians 14? Then I can tell you that I've met some christians who say this and they are of the fundamentalist type, so if you want to find out what they believe go to bible baptist website or a fundamentalist website.

    They seem to be against tongues, but not all the other things Corinthians mentions (knowledge, prophecy,) but I think its just they don't emphasise those things as charity (or love) is most important.

    From what I know, this guy came out of a pentecostal church and was quite damaged by it so he would not let me mention speaking in tongues to his daughters.

    Hope this helps. I wouldn't say they don't believe the holy spirit doesn't reveal scripture to them, just that like scripture says we know in part. We don't know everything. Till we see Him face to face.

    scripture also says 'forbid not speaking in tongues' but I didn't say anything to him. He was older and he was kind enough to let me stay Wwoofing so I didn't want to argue. They were quite a strict shall I say 'old fashioned' christians but they had chosen to live that way and be apart from perhaps the more crazier charismatic doctrines.
  5. There are those who do not believe they need the Holy Spirit to understand scripture because we have it already written down in the Bible.

    Eph 3:3.. How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote a fore in few words,
    Eph 3:4.. Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ

    Anyone who knows the Lord understands that it is the Father, Son (Word), and Holy Spirit who is active at work teaching his child.
    Mykuhl likes this.
  6. It makes sense.
  7. This might help... go to the scriptures:

    Daniel 12:4 (ESV)
    But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.​

    So, you only need to ask yourself: are we in the end time?
  8. Maybe I didn't make myself clear with my original post. I wasn't asking because I am trying to form my own belief about it(I believe that the Holy Spirit does do these things), I am asking because I want to know what cessationists believe. So I am the cessationists in here.
  9. Exiting... :whistle:
  10. Lol....I know you aren't a cessationist Abdicate [emoji14]
    Abdicate likes this.
  11. Mykuhl you made your self clear but perhaps there is one thing you are not seeing here. Those who are as you want to ask of this question that you have to ask of those who you want to answer this question that is directed to only them and there fore only then can this question you want to ask of them can be answered by them to fulfill your request to know how they will answer this question that you have to ask of them questioning how they see the written word as to how they obtain knowledge of the written word and so forth.

    The deal is........They can not give you the answer you seek. Why ? Because they believe they are being taught CORRECTLY and will argue anyone elses point of view in this. So your answer is yes they believe it is the Holy spirit who gives them this wisdom.

    Now do we need chapter 2 in this ? lol
  12. Lol Jim, no we don't need a chapter 2.

    I just want an answer from the cessationists, even if the answer is yes as you say, then that is fine....I have my answer and I wasn't looking to debate it lol.
  13. Dont think there are any...
    I dont think its christian to label ppl this or that. Imho. Theres too many isms as it is.

    We know ppl are christian by their love. Not by their arguments over doctrine.
    Juk and Siloam say Amen and like this.
  14. I know this but you did post it in a forum so forum people post even when asked not to post so in these posters defense one can say they held back from their posting of no posting post posted......
  15. I know that there is at least one because I saw him state in one of his posts that he is.
    And I didn't make the label....they use it themselves lol.
  16. Lol ok Jim
  17. #17 Euphemia, May 16, 2015
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
    Ephesians 4:11-16
    Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. 12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. 13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.

    14 Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. 15 Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church. 16 He makes the whole body fit together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.

    Nowhere does God teach us that the Church will have no need of His gifting, for we as the Body of Christ in the world have NOT ARRIVED AS YET! As long as the Church is still here, then we can be assured that Jesus is still actively working His building program, and we, His workmen, are still in need of His spiritual "tools" or abilities to get His job done---and when the building is complete, He will come for us. We will lay down our "tools" and go to be with Him in the Kingdom we have been labouring WITH HIM to build.

    Cessationsim defies God's word and Jesus' leading and empowerment of the believer.
  18. Hi,

    The reason that I keyed on the word ‘cessationist’ in the other post was that that is the kind of word used to identify those on the other side (and there-fore the wrong side) of an issue. It’s sort of like in Ireland identifying someone as a Papist rather than as a Roman Catholic. It focuses on the differences in a negative way and can indicate the speaker’s disapproval. Actually, I did not take it as wrong spirited, but wanted to voice my feelings about regarding those with different views as being spiritually inferior.

    Most of the following represents my understanding of what was taught in several churches I attended (many avenues for misunderstanding). I am independent (bull-headed?) enough to have disagreed with some of the teachings even if I was much edified by other aspects of the church's message.

    To answer your question, The Holy Spirit inhabits, empowers and guides the believer. The meaning of scripture is inaccessible, or at least uncertain without the guidance of the Spirit. The will of God is laid upon our hearts by the Spirit. There are words that are used in common that are taken to mean different things. These are words like ‘anointed’. Both views talk about being spirit-filled, but I suspect their mental picture differs markedly.

    Related points of disagreement: At Pentecost, the miracle was, according to the way I was first taught, was in the ear of the hearer rather than in the speech of the disciples.

    Tongues (meaning the speaking in a foreign language) were considered to be a minor gift while the greater gifts were the ones to be desired. They taught that speaking in angelic tongues had no basis in scripture (of course, that was only their view).

    Once the perfect comes the old things pass away is taken to mean that at the canonization of the Bible, the remaining ‘charismatic’ gifts will be finished.

    The time of prophecy in the sense of telling something new about God or of fore-telling was closed with the other gifts. Prophecy in the sense of forth-telling more a case of applying previously understood principles and information.

    An Apostle had to personally seen Christ. Paul’s vision on the road is taken to be a unique occurrence and no-one now living should be called an Apostle (at least in this sense).

    These are my understanding of the way these points have been presented. I have not given the scriptural backing (there are many sections) because I really do not wish to get into a which-one is right argument.

    I think it is truly ironic (and possibly demonic) that the very book intended to denounce and teach against factionalism (1st Corinthians) is one of the ones used in so much side-taking and finger pointing. If you do not think the enemy uses scriptures to manipulate believers, think again.

    For myself:

    Over 40 years ago, my first church I attended as a committed believer was undergoing some turmoil over such questions as these. At that time, I could give a better summary of the differences (from the Baptist point of view). I was having a lunch-time Bible-study at the local college and several of my fellow student were from churches one the 'other side' of the issue and we discussed it in brotherhood at length. For the more recent years, I have been concentrating on how I can serve and be a blessing to whoever is standing in front of me. I know these issues are important, and I am do not want to trivialize it, but it is not too often that my present focus turns on the charismatic gifts.

    I do not belong in a charismatic church. It is quite possibly a failing of mine, rather than a case of wrong doctrine. I am the son of a rocket engineer. I was brought up with a deep respect for the things of science and the scientific methods. If I was to try to mold that into a charismatic approach to God, and the scriptures, I would too often be trying to construct scientific tests and experiments to something that needs to be approached from the heart, rather than from the head. I understand that this does not mean that they are mistaken.

    I can and have worshiped beside friends at a local Pentecostal Church Of God and at other similar places of worship, but I need to remain where God has led me.

    I have come to the understanding that this does not mean that one side or another is wrong. I think that it is significant that three different Baptist pastors, each in a slightly different way acknowledged that the Spirit is working in Pentecostal churches. It is saddening for me that this is not true of every one that I have heard preach.

    There are some things that I think are fundamental enough that I no qualms about taking sides:

    When my son, in his early twenties was asked by his friend to start attending a Mormon church, I went with him to a ‘Bible Study’ by that church (so I could provide counter-point), and encouraged him to attend my church with me. In the end, he chose another very fine church where he could be there on his own rather than as my son. Later he said “It’s not that I like my new church better (than the Mormon church), it’s that I believe them more”.

    If, on the other hand, he had started attending a Pentecostal church, I would probably have visited his church often, even if I kept my home congregation.
    Arrie03 likes this.
  19. Thank you for answering my question Siloam [emoji2].
  20. I do not hold a cecessationist view of the church, but I have done some research on it and talked with a number of those who hold the view.

    From what I can tell, it comes about as a result of two things...
    The first is simply a knee jerk reaction to the spectacles created by bodies and people who claim that they are working in the Spirit's gifts, but who are very plainly not. In a desperate attempt to be sperated from that it is simplest just to state and believe that the gifts of the Spirit are no more. That way there is no argument and no need to call people out when they are functioning only in their own spirit or in a demonic one.

    The second thing is just a logical extension of teaching that the bible is perfect and without error.
    The logic chain works something like...
    Something that is perfect is complete and needs no additions
    The bible is perfect and needs no additions
    The gifts of the spirit are additions
    Since the bible is perfect the gifts are no longer needed or present
    KingJ likes this.

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