Afterlife

What is your belief about Hell?

  • Eternal Torment

    Votes: 12 50.0%
  • Annihilation

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • Universal Salvation/Reconciliation

    Votes: 1 4.2%
  • Other

    Votes: 8 33.3%

  • Total voters
    24
Truth stands up to scrutiny, so if these teachings are untrue, they will be revealed for what they are. In any case you didn't address any of them, so anyone who picks up a Bible and reads these scriptures (or just Googles "scriptures that teach [insert teaching here]") would then be falling into "deception" as you say. As the devil's advocate, I merely stand to argue what no one else is arguing to see what wisdom and/or truth we can learn from it. Also, I don't know why anyone who is "weak in faith" would be more inclined to listen to me than you.

Scrutinize, but don't declare yourself as a devil's advocate, which is dishonourable. if you don't believe the word of God, be honest and say so.

Arguing what you think no one else is doing is a self-deception. these things are countered very day by Christians.

As for the weak in faith---you have no idea how the weak and insecure in faith can be influenced by someone presenting the lies of the devil. If you know the truth, you err in presenting lies as a debating tactic. There is a terrible risk in that, and there is judgment for those who lead people astray.

You also didn't address any of the scriptures to view them through the "proper" lens, or say why it is erroneous to interpret them in the manner I suggested they could be interpreted. I also don't think its right for you to disparage people who do in fact interpret these scriptures differently. Perhaps they don't say "Everyone will be brought into Heaven" but nor do they say or indicate "Some will be damned for eternity". None of us are infallible so our readings of scripture will sometimes (if not often) be faulty.

I am not going to address the old standbys of Universalists and Annihilationists who twist the word. None of us are infallible, but many of us know the truth of the word because Holy Spirit lives up to His job in leading us into all truth. We believe HIM, and not the tired old arguments of heresy.

Now, for clarity, since you seem to be indicating I'm a heretic, I use to be very skeptical of universalism, as you are, until I learned more about their belief.

Then you have allowed yourself to be influenced just as you wish to influence others who are not strong in their faith.

Learning that some universalism has a case is actually somewhat liberating.

Liberating? Being liberated from truth is only more bondage!

What I think you misunderstand about Univeralism is that it is an excuse to do whatever sinful deed comes to your mind because it doesn't matter in the end. And indeed that is the danger in teaching it dogmatically, but no Christian Universalist believes that. It can, however, be a way to focus more on love and grace rather than fear and coercion. Whatever its status (I would call it heterodoxical, you would say heretical) I don't endorse it beyond a mere wishful hope, because it does have severe implications for the faith.

I don't misunderstand anything about universalism. I don't think you should be peddling this false doctrine here.

However, that being said, I think also that your concept of Hell as a cosmic torture chamber also has negative implications, and a sizable portion of apostasies Christians abandon their faith because the doctrines on Hell offend their conscience. Well, God will not offend the conscience because he is perfectly just, infinitely merciful, and ultimately loving. So, either Hell is not being taught correctly, or people are misunderstanding it (or both).

I understand the doctrine of hell, and I am not offended by it.

Likewise, hell is not retribution for offenses to God (though it is sometimes how it is explained), but rather the cost of being in His presence (or away from it) with mortal sin on your heart.

Hell is not retribution for offenses. It is simply where all who are positionally unrighteous before holy God will go. People are not judged for their sin as much as they are merely judged for who they are: unrighteous. We can only be deemed righteous by allowing the blood of Jesus to redeem us. It's the simple gospel message.
 
Scrutinize, but don't declare yourself as a devil's advocate, which is dishonourable. if you don't believe the word of God, be honest and say so.

Arguing what you think no one else is doing is a self-deception. these things are countered very day by Christians.

As for the weak in faith---you have no idea how the weak and insecure in faith can be influenced by someone presenting the lies of the devil. If you know the truth, you err in presenting lies as a debating tactic. There is a terrible risk in that, and there is judgment for those who lead people astray.



I am not going to address the old standbys of Universalists and Annihilationists who twist the word. None of us are infallible, but many of us know the truth of the word because Holy Spirit lives up to His job in leading us into all truth. We believe HIM, and not the tired old arguments of heresy.



Then you have allowed yourself to be influenced just as you wish to influence others who are not strong in their faith.



Liberating? Being liberated from truth is only more bondage!



I don't misunderstand anything about universalism. I don't think you should be peddling this false doctrine here.



I understand the doctrine of hell, and I am not offended by it.



Hell is not retribution for offenses. It is simply where all who are positionally unrighteous before holy God will go. People are not judged for their sin as much as they are merely judged for who they are: unrighteous. We can only be deemed righteous by allowing the blood of Jesus to redeem us. It's the simple gospel message.
We've already discussed this in another thread. It's fine to play Devil's advocate for the purpose of learning.
 
We've already discussed this in another thread. It's fine to play Devil's advocate for the purpose of learning.

That is your opinion, but as it is presented here, it is not for learning's sake. If one wants to argue a point, simply argue the point as a bona fide holder of an opinion.
 
That is your opinion, but as it is presented here, it is not for learning's sake. If one wants to argue a point, simply argue the point as a bona fide holder of an opinion.


This whole thread is about learning, Euphemia. Just because you disagree with the method doesn't mean the people on here are not learning from it.
 
Nothing in that post supports your statement above.

Those are all vague and out of context statements.

Yes it does. They are pointed statements that we need to heed. Nothing is vague or out of context, unless you choose not to understand it.
 
This whole thread is about learning, Euphemia. Just because you disagree with the method doesn't mean the people on here are not learning from it.

I disagree with the member who stated he/she didn't really believe what he/she was saying but chooses to argue the opposite. That is disingenuous, and unwise and spiritually dangerous not only to him/herself, but to others.
 
Yes it does. They are pointed statements that we need to heed. Nothing is vague or out of context, unless you choose not to understand it.

You never respond to the good posts that disagree with your opinion, especially when it comes to different views on hell. You say there are no verses that support opposing positions and then when people post verse after verse in a post you just ignore it. You are viewing the Bible through a view (that the human soul is immortal) that isn't even biblical.
I disagree with the member who stated he/she didn't really believe what he/she was saying but chooses to argue the opposite. That is disingenuous, and unwise and spiritually dangerous not only to him/herself, but to others.

... That's what playing the devil's advocate is.
 
You never respond to the good posts that disagree with your opinion, especially when it comes to different views on hell. You say there are no verses that support opposing positions and then when people post verse after verse in a post you just ignore it. You are viewing the Bible through a view (that the human soul is immortal) that isn't even biblical.

What good posts? :p

... That's what playing the devil's advocate is.

We need to care enough about the truth to make a case for it.
 
annihilationism has one fatal flaw - it is not possible, those made in God's image cannot be destroyed, for good or ill they exist for all eternity. Once created, a living being is truly immortal.

universalism also has a fatal flaw - scripture states the exact opposite in very plain terms, repeatedly
 
What good posts? :p



We need to care enough about the truth to make a case for it.

All of MMurphy's posts.
annihilationism has one fatal flaw - it is not possible, those made in God's image cannot be destroyed, for good or ill they exist for all eternity. Once created, a living being is truly immortal.

universalism also has a fatal flaw - scripture states the exact opposite in very plain terms, repeatedly

Where is the biblical case for the soul being immortal?
 
We are "made in God's image". That has nothing to do with numbers of arms, legs, eyes, or toes. It has to do with our true nature. We are "a little lower than angels". Angels are indestructable, immortal beings, they cannot die or suffer any permanent hurt. Once we die, we will be the same.
 
We are "made in God's image". That has nothing to do with numbers of arms, legs, eyes, or toes. It has to do with our true nature. We are "a little lower than angels". Angels are indestructable, immortal beings, they cannot die or suffer any permanent hurt. Once we die, we will be the same.

Where does it say that being made in God's image makes us immoral? I see plenty in the Bible about people being destroyed but I see nothing about us being immortal. Besides, are you saying God made us so strong that He can't destroy us?
 
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