Abomination Of Desolation

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by THALLON, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. hi, I've written an ebook on revelation, but,
    I'm still clarifying some things so I might pick your brains for answers.
    The abomination of desolation.
    i''m trying to decide weather its at the start of the tribulation 7 years
    or at the mid-point.
    Mat 24 seems to suggest at the start followed by the great trib
    but since i'm tending to think the beast invades Israel to kill the two witnesses at the mid point
    and then places the abomination.,
    but since the abomination is a created image of the beast which kills people i'm more
    inclined towards the start..
    .but the created image is only done by the false prophet
    after the beast has received a mortal wound, assissination attempt? so that's more likely
    after the seven year peace deal is signed by UN president Obama in 2030?
    [I made that last part up, did u like it? ha ha, It might be prophetic]
    your input appreciated.
  2. UN President....you had me going there for a bit:ROFLMAO:
    As for the main question, much prayer and thought needed.
    Put me down for a copy when it is finished though.
  3. IMHO we won't know who the antichrist will be. To me the abomination of desolation is exactly 1260 days after the two witnesses come when they are killed (since they're on the temple mount) and Jesus warns Israel to flee when they see it happening. 1260 days after that Jesus returns.
    Major likes this.
  4. I'm understanding Matt 24:15 to be referring to the beginning of that tribulation period. Things will be that bad, that after 42 months of Tribulation, anyone obedient enough to take Jesus' advice would have left long since. It seems that with the installation of the image, a great light should dawn and people will exit post haste. The Lord's people will need to vacate Jerusalem by the time the two witnesses arrive because their ministry will not make living in Jerusalem a walk in the park.
    As for the beast invading Israel to kill the two witnesses, which beast are we talking about?
    Beast #1 of Rev 13 comes up out of the sea, and seems to be Satan's 2ic. Beast #2 (the false prophet comes from the land.
    But the beast of Rev 11, the one that kills the two witnesses comes up out of the Abyss. This makes me question the identity of that beast. Seems to me that it is more than likely the Satan itself.
    Hope this is of some help.
    Major likes this.
  5. I agree!

    Jesus tells us in Matthew 24:15.....(ESV)
    "So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)".

    Daniel 11:31English Standard Version (ESV)
    " Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate. "

    In Matthew:24:15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Jesus says the abomination of desolation will be "standing in the holy place."

    Paul tells us a major religious figure will arise at the time of the end.
    2 Thessalonians:2:1-4 .........
    " Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.:
    "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day [of Christ's return] will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

    Since the first two fulfillments of the abomination of desolation involved the cessation of sacrifices, it appears that sacrifices will again be instituted before Christ's return. Apparently once again sacrifices will be initiated at or near Jerusalem; armies again will surround Jerusalem, and the sacrifices will be cut off—this time for 1,260 days.
  6. some good points there Major.
  7. Thank you but give God the glory. It seems that we are living in THAT generation that Jesus said would be alive to see Him come again in all of His power and magnificence!

    Did you see last night that NATO is sending thousands of troops to Ukraine to make sure that Russia does not continue to invade, or do whatever it is they have been doing now for 1 year.

    Also, the US and England, France and several others are now going to send in "coalition" troops, combined with USA air power to stop and destroy this ISIS movement of Muslims.

    Do you see any "writing on the wall" in these events????
  8. You may be more right than you think when saying......."Obama is the UN president."

    A cold chill just ran down my back.
  9. So, if this 'man of sin', the son of perdition, is going to set himself up in the temple (also needs to be rebuilt), then is he the abomination of desolation or will he have the image of the beast there to play that role?
  10. #10 calvin, Sep 6, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
    I'm seeing shadows at least.
    One thing is certain though....the world political map must soon change to allow things to play out.
    I can't see the Muslims standing idly by while a new temple is built. Can't see the animals rights activists standing by while the sacrifices are being offered.
    Things must soon change.
    What insight do you have about the 'sign of the Son of Man'
    Matt 24:30. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Major likes this.
  11. I thought of something the other day. With Hammas shooting rockets into Jerusalem, without any aiming, it seems that there is a real good chance for one or more of them to hit their own Temple, the Doom of the Rock. The radical terrorists Muslims just may be responsible for destroying their own place of historical worship.

    Then I am sure that Israel will help fix up a new one.....ya think??? I think that just might the catalyst to cause a another war.

    The events in Matt. 24:30 are at the end of the Tribulation. The ancient commentator. Chrysostom thought that it would be the appearance of a giant cross in the sky.

    Dr. Lange, another prophetic commentator thought it would be the shekinah glory of Christ Himself. Some have thought it to be the return of the star that told man of the birth of Messiah Jesus. As for me......I have no clue!! I work real hard in order to NOT project something that is not there and if God does not tell us, then IMO I just do not know.

    Acts 1:11 says......"IN the same manner".

    Zech. 12:10-12 and Rev. 1:7 say that those who killed Christ will mourn so it seems that there will be some kind of visible manifestation that will mark the return of Christ.

    Could even be clouds that spell out ......"I TOLD YOU SO"!
  12. calvin.....I have always given in to the KISS system of understanding.

    "Keep It Simple Stupid"...(Me, not you).

    The Bible tells us two important things.
    (1) Luke 21 tells us that armies around Jerusalem will precede the abomination.
    (2) Matthew 24:15 then tells us that it involves something “stand[ing] in the holy place.”

    Here is where I Keep this simple. I tend to not allow mixed up theories, suppositions and assumptions and opinions I have heard but not Biblically grounded that cloud the plain understanding of what God reveals. But that is just me. I am just an old country boy so what do I know?
    Angela333 likes this.
  13. hi,
    I've settled on a MID tribulation as Daniel says..
    “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.
    The first 42 months Israel is occupied by the UN as part of the peace treaty of 7 years.
    During that time the two witnesses / prophets curse the earth and basically tell the truth about the beast.
    He then invades Israel, kills the two, breaks the treaty
    and sparks WW111
  14. You are free to believe that. That is of course your choice. I would encourage you however to consider the fact that the view that the Rapture will occur at the mid-point of the Tribulation is based upon 1 Corinthians 15:52 which states that the Rapture will occur at the blowing of "the last trumpet."

    The Mid-Tribulation Rapture view then declares this trumpet to be the last of the seven trumpets in Revelation 11 that is blown at the mid-point of the Tribulation. Why of the 114 references to trumpets in the Bible these two are identified as one and the same only defies sound Bible study. The context clearly shows the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15 is blown for believers whereas the seven trumpets of Revelation 8, 9 and 11 are sounded for unbelievers. The Revelation trumpets therefore can have no relevance for the Church.

    That would then mean that a mid-tribulation Rapture can not happen. But that is just me and I may not be right. MY encouragement then would be for you to study those Bible verses in depth.
  15. Now then if the trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15 is for believers, that would tie in with the first resurrection.... Rev20 wouldn't it?
    That immediately ushers in the 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth.
    But Paul describes this trumpet as the last trumpet. How can there be any trumpet blasts after the last trumpet sounds?
    What am I missing here?
  16. calvin, The referrance in 1 Corth. 15 to "at the last trump" IMO is to the divine signal by which the "moment" will proclaimed, the Rapture, which in essence manifestes the will of God to the beings who have passed on. It does not therefore IMHO mean the LAST trump among any particular number of trumps nor the last of the 7 trumps which the Jews thought would sound the 7 successive stages of the resurrection. I do not believe that Paul had that in mind seeing that he represents the resurrection as "insatananeous" and not in stages.

    This trump no doubt corresponds to the last trump mentioned in the Revelation, BUT it does not IMO mean that he had that in mind. Now again, that is just me.
    psalms511 likes this.
  17. Thanks.....right or wrong it does make sense.
  18. i am a mid trib rapture believer, there is no logical or biblical solid foundation for a pre or after trib rapture. [tribulation referring to the whole 7 years, but for me it is two 31/2 year events, the tribulation of the saints and the wrath of God]
    the trumpets appear to be telling of the nuclear war event while the bowls are outcomes.
  19. On the Feast of Trumpets (1 Tishri) there are four tumpet calls, each with their own meanings. In Paul's time, anyone who says "last trump" knows it's the 4th trumpt of the Feast of Trumpets.
    Major likes this.
  20. thanks for that, I didn't know that.

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