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A Theory About Heaven And Righteousness

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Michael Wambugu, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. Hi,

    I have a theory about heaven and righteousness.

    It is based on the assumption that God became 'More of himself'...(Please read the forum post 'GOD BECAME MORE OF HIMSELF', if you do not understand what it means).

    According to the bible, God created all things to bring him pleasure.....Revelation 4:11"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."......And it is right that he should expect the 'more of himself' to bring him pleasure.

    Therefore we (all creation) are all part of God's body. Just like the human body, every part of our body exists to bring us pleasure e.g. the hands exist to make it easier for us to pickup things, to help us communicate, e.t.c. Therefore, we expect each part of our body (which is more of ourselves) to fulfill it's role....i.e. the reason why it existed. When it does not, it fails to bring us pleasure, and therefore there is no use for it anymore.

    In the same way, God requires us to bring him pleasure since we are part of his body. When we fail to do so, then there is no need for us anymore.

    Therefore, to put it simply, holiness is doing the things that bring God pleasure, and sin is doing the things that don't bring him pleasure.

    Now, let's talk about heaven.

    According to the bible, heaven is a place of absolute pleasure (happiness). A place where there is no sorrow. This is where God lives. He is surrounded by pleasure everywhere.

    Allow me to digress a little bit...

    God loves holiness, therefore it means that all the things you truely like are holy, and all the things you truely hate are evil (Since we are made from God).

    Some people think that it is possible to like evil. . How ubsurd...

    Think about it, everything you hate e.g. poverty,uncleanliness, suffering e.t.c is the result of a sin...i.e. poverty - result of laziness, procatination, lack of diligence e.t.c, uncleanliness - result of laziness, procastination, lack of diligence e.t.c, suffering - result of rebelling against the truths of life.

    Everything you like is the result of virtue e.g. love, riches, pleasure e.t.c.....love is the result of basic courtesy, riches are the result of hardwork, diligence, good planning and taking precautions, pleasure is the result of all your relationships going well i.e. in your workplace, in your home, in society e.t.c. (relationships are the result of basic courtesy). All pleasures including those that come from material things are the result of favor from God or one of God's creation as a result of a successful relationship.

    Now, back to the disussion about heaven...

    Therefore this means, that if there is to be 100% pleasure in heaven, then it has to be filled with people who are virtuous....i.e. for people to enjoy the 'pleasure of love' in heaven, then the people who end up going to heaven, have to have respect and basic courtesy as some of their virtues.

    Therefore for you to go to heaven, you must meet a certain standard of virtue, otherwise you will cost people pleasure when you go there. Think about it, if you are a thief for example, and you go to heaven, you will start robbing people and cause the amount of pleasure in heaven to reduce. Therefore God would never allow thieves to go to heaven.

    Instead, God requires that you be born again, and your spirit renewed for you to enter heaven...i.e. get rid of your old stealing habits.

    1 Chronicles 29:17 (NKJV)“I know also, my God, that You test the heart and have pleasure in uprightness....

    Psalm 5:4 (KJV)“For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.”

    Ezekiel 18:23 (NKJV)
    Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?”

    Ezekiel 18:32 (NKJV)
    For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”

    Ezekiel 33:11 (NKJV)“......‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, …...”

    People may wonder, what is the big deal with heaven and pleasure. Well, it is because everyone will live forever. If you are going to live forever, then everything you do today affects the amount of pleasure/ suffering that you will have tomorrow. And remember, ideally, when it comes to pleasure, tomorrow is supposed to be better than today...if you are going to live forever. Otherwise there is going to be too much monotony that it (the monotony) is going to cause mental torture, at the least, which is a form of suffering.

    If you insult the 'mud that you are made from' for example, that is a recipe for suffering forever. However, if you praise and appease the 'mud that you are made from', that my friend, is a recipe for eternal happiness and pleasure. That is because logic dictates that, if you are still not the 'mud you are made from', then, whether the 'mud you are made from' likes or dislikes you, greatly affects every second of your life. Therefore, if the 'mud that you are made from' dislikes you forever, then you will suffer forever. It's just that simple!

    So why does God always talk to us about heaven. Well heaven is the '10 star' of all creation. The most beautiful and pleasurable place in all of creation. A place where there is pleasure beyond your wildest dreams. Remember you will live forever, so this is really important to you.

    Hell on the other hand, is the dumpster of all creation. Hell the place where all fruits of sin will be thrown, according to the book of revelation. A place where all the things that you hate will be thrown forever.

    Some people think that hell will be a clean, hot place. That is so far from the truth! Cleanliness is the result of virtue, not sin. Therefore, hell will be full of all the fruits of sin like oduor, uncleanliness, poverty, a stench, diseases, suffering, no love (because the people/ things that will be thrown in hell woun't have basic courtesy as one of their virtues; therefore you will be relating with an environment with zero coutesy...the result of zero coutesy is hate and dislike.). Imagine living in a place like that forever...a dumpster!

    I personally believe that heaven is an entire universe that is the '10 Star' of creation...according to the bible, it has streets of gold, no suffering, virtous people/ things, happiness, joy, no poverty, no diseases, very high standards of hygiene and cleanliness (sterile) e.t.c...

    Finally, I also belive that hell is an entire universe that is the dumpster of all the trash in creation....the result of sin... like confusion, hate, disorder, lies, betrayal, laziness, ,poverty, diseases, e.t.c.

    Revelation 4:11"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

    Colossians 1:16"For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him (i.e. for his pleasure)."

    1 Chronicles 29:17 (NKJV)“I know also, my God, that You test the heart and have pleasure in uprightness....

    Psalm 5:4 (KJV)“For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.”

    Psalm 16:11 (NKJV)“You will show me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.”

    Psalm 103:21 (NKJV)“Bless ye the Lord, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.”

    Isaiah 46:9-10 (NKJV)“Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other;I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’”

    Ezekiel 18:23 (NKJV)Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?”

    Ezekiel 18:32 (NKJV)For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”

    Ezekiel 33:11 (NKJV)“......‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, …...”

    That's all folks..

    Thank you.
  2. You were doing fine until this "Therefore we (all creation) are all part of God's body."

    God has no "body".
    God is eternal and seperate from creation. He is the author of all creation, not part of it.

    BTW the word is "absurd" and there are people who "like evil".
    Evil being the pursuit of good things in a manner which is not good.

  3. Yeah..your right, thanks for the correction, absurd it is....Now, I didn't mean body literally,....Infact, I should have put body in quotes...i.e. 'body'....What I meant was body in a similar context to the way the bible refers to the body of Christ...I don't think the bible means a literal body...do you? I think it refers to body in the sense of 'more of himself' of Christ....what do you think?
  4. We were indeed created for His pleasure (along with the rest of creation).
    But God's nature does not change. He is as He has always been, as He was before time began.
    The notion of God "becoming more" contradicts scripture.
  5. I get your point....but if you were to ask yourself."where did all things come from"...you would answer, "God" right?.....Using human logic, (note I said human logic, since I know that the ways (things) of God are above everything that we could ever think or ask for), it is normal to conclude that everything must have had a beginning, including God...because it doesn't make sense how God could not have had a beginning...that's all I'm saying....how would you explain this to a layman...indulge me...
  6. Time is a characteristic of matter, thus it is part of God's creation.
    God exists outside of time and creation, it is His handiwork, not part of Him.
    God had no beginning, He is timeless.
  7. Why would it make no sense for God to not have a beginning? What IS beginning? What is God? What isn't God?

    We have to conclude that some things can't be measured the way we insist they should be. Math can't be measured by science. Logic can't be measured by science -- they are presupposed scientifically. Even science can't be measured by science.

    But each component and the things that measure and are measured aren't components beside God -- they would have to be creations of God. If they weren't creations of God, it would mean God isn't really God in fact, or at least not the same God we are talking about.
  8. So Lys, you do agree that all things must have come from God...to put it another way...God must have been the source of all things otherwise he wouldn't be God? In that case, it means that all creation emanates from God...this means that all creation is made from God.....therefore it is possible that the materials used to create creation in genesis could have been 'more of himself' of God...or to put it more clearly....emanated from God.......I tend to lean towards this theory because, I find that I don't need too much faith any more to believe for instance... that 'all things work together for the good of them that love the Lord'....i.e. if everything is 'more of himself' of God, then, it is not difficult to believe that all creation works together for the good of the righteous....or that there is Justice in the world....or that God loves me...or that God is really real in our lives, and in the everyday lives of all creation....or that God knows everything we do...or that God knows our thoughts...or that God cares for everyone and everything in creation...or that God feeds the ravens/birds of the air everyday...or that in the end everyone shall answer for their deeds, including the devil...or that heaven is real...or that hell is real...I mean, I could keep going on and on about the benefits I have experienced so far from this hypothesis.....but I know, that it is all meaningless if it is not true....that is why I keep looking for a verse in the bible that clearly and explicitly disproves the theory that 'God became more of himself'...and so I always welcome the opinion of my fellow Christians regarding this hypothesis.
  9. Forgive me for not grasping your theory -- I'm trying to understand what it is...though it sounds like we agree if I'm not mistaken.

    I believe that all things came from God, both material in immaterial. Often, the things used with the intention to discredit God (like science, time, and math) are items created BY God, and therefore God is outside of time, science, and math.

    I'd argue that faith isn't a method of believing something despite the evidence -- faith is best supported by evidence (though perhaps not necessary in every case). For instance, I have faith that my wife would show up to the hospital if I found myself in the ER. It's not blind faith, but it's because of the evidence I have of my wife loving and caring for me.
  10. You are right! God is above all these things that Man uses to try and understand or define him.....because they are all his creations....it's kind of like...a clay pot trying to define the potter's origin, based on it's shape, texture or it's abilities (for instance it's ability to hold water). But at the same time, I think it's good to acknowledge that all the clay pot is trying to do, is to know the truth about the potter based on it's limited understanding. I think that's what science and math try to do....to explain everything in the world based on clear evidence (truth). What science considers truth|facts is not always right....and history can testify to this...for instance the early scientists believed that the world was flat, and they considered this to be a fact|truth....so much so, that all mankind alive at the time were taught this in institutions of higher learning as a fact|truth of how God created the earth.....Ancient Egypt is renown for having some of the most brilliant mathematicians and scientists that the world has ever seen, but even they, believed that the world was flat. My point is that the scientists today are just Men....therefore, they can be wrong in their conclusions, but I think that we should be like God and allow them to make their mistakes.....because during the age when everyone in the world believed that the earth was flat, God just allowed them to continue thinking so, because that is where their human knowledge and understanding had reached....though he (God) knew that it wasn't so. Science today says that there is no God....and God allows those who pursue that line of thought to continue doing so, because they have free will....though, he has sent his prophets to reveal the truth to all mankind.....the bible is clear that in the end everyone will know the truth about God, and won't need so much faith any more to know that God is real.....the bible says that God would like us to relate with him "in spirit and in truth"....therefore we should not be afraid of science as Christians, because all science is, is Man trying to find out the truth about everything in his life....including the truth about how those things can be quantified and arrived at.....According to the bible, God would like to reveal these things to us (Mankind)....if we only seek him first.....therefore personally, I don't think scientists, or science is an enemy of God in anyway. It is what is in the heart of the person practising science that makes him sin against God, not the science. Infact I think there should be more Christian scientists who can guide the world into a new era of pure science undefiled with sin.
  11. Hell is a place where people go who have rejected the salvation of God to await judgement day
    Heaven is a place where people go who have accepted the salvation of God to await resurrection day.

    Neither is permanent. According to Revelation 20 and 21 the old heaven and earth will pass away and a new heaven and a new earth will be made and we will be resurrected to live in our new bodies on the new earth WITH Jesus

    The lost will find their final disposition in the lake of fire...the second death

    Revelation 20:
    11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Revelation 21
    Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
  12. Michael, I would replace 'pleasure' with 'please'. God does what pleases Him. His law pleases Him. Us not committing adultery doesn't bring Him pleasure like perhaps praise would, but it does please Him to see we are loving one another.

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