Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Major, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. Deuteronomy 8:1-3..........
    " All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers. And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live".

    2 Peter 1:20-21 (NKJV)...........
    "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."

    What is "Seeker Friendly Christianity"? It is by its statement a very confusing phrase.

    After having spoken with several local pastors recently I have come to a conclusion on what it means. It is the practice of seeking experiences or communion with God through the addition of new techniques, plans, programs and revelations.

    Now there will be many who do not agree with me but IMO that folks is man directed for MAN!

    But what does God say? Jeremiah 15:16..........
    "But thy WORDS were found and I did eat them and thy WORD was unto me the joy of rejoicing of my heart".

    For anyone setting out on a spiritual journey to know God and His ways, I recommend that the first and only place to start that with is God's Word, His Bible.

    Now why do so many people discount the Bible and the written Word of God today????

    Because it is the only book that dares to tell YOU that YOU are wrong. IT tells YOU and me that we are sinners. That is why there are so many translations. Each one tries to remove the fear of God and allows man to look at himself in a less severe light than that of a depraved sinner.
    KingJ, Grant Melville, autumn oddity and 4 others say Amen and like this.
  2. I'm right there with you Brother: it has to start with the individual - I am guilty of sloth probably most of all; and cowardice. Pray for us Major. Pray for strengthening faith and boldness in the Word.

    I've tried to get the the point across about this 'ultra-grace' groove the majority is stuck in. I don't think 'balance' is the appropriate terminology, but maybe the concept of balance is easier to comprehend . We must have Grace AND Truth IN Love. That is the Holy equation. Jesus knew at what measure to apply each of these in every situation.

    This 'everything is covered by grace' mentality is just as dangerous as 'you must obey the law at all times in for sinless perfection'. They are just opposite ends of the spectrum. Pray that the Church gets back on the "narrow way". That the Church picks up God's TRUE Word.
    KingJ likes this.
  3. #3 Cturtle, Sep 6, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
    As i can agree with you both, i think that there is something missing. Even as we read the king James version (which is my favorite) a lot of the Words have lost their meaning, due to the changing times, plus we have to realize that when the King James version was transcribed, there was not someone fluent in Hebrew and greek to translate the depth of the meanings of the Words themselves. So even as one studies the Written Word of God, we are not getting the full meaning or the depth of the meaning of what the Scriptures are saying, unless one studies with a concordance to find out what the original Hebrew and greek mean.

    I have been asking the Lord to help me to fully understand His Word as it was originally written, and i have bgeen wanting to learn Hebrew and Greek for a long time. So now He has led me to use a Bible app that has the strongs definitions included with the king James version, and to study and write down all of the words and their meaning so that i can learn Hebrew and Greek. I am finding that the meanings are much deeper than we have been taught. My pastor does a great job of encouraging us to make sure we get in the Word and study, not just taking his word for it, and to pray over it before we begin so that we can truly hear what God is wanting us to learn, and convey to others. To truly learn the truth of the written Word and all that God wants for us to know. Because as the Scriptures say it has been given to us to know the mysteries of the Word. It is not hidden from us but for us. My paraphrase for Dt 29:29 and Luke 8:10

    I agree also that we need to get back to the straight and narrow, but maybe we can just consider that Jesus was all about grace, and giving unto the people, He taught with authority and grace, but was truly a preacher that excitedly yelled when He got to a point that He wanted them to hear and receive. To many people have been scared into believing that if they don't do everything absolutely right that God will not bless them. So the fear tactics that the church has been using need a little revamping. And no i am not saying to totally water down the Word so far that no one grows or ever gets to the meat (which in my opinion is what the seeker sensitive church does, as they are more for getting to the non believer to believe in Christ, through different avenues, but the message needs to be more direct as time goes on...more of get your face out of the tv and into the Word to learn, stop being so busy thst one has no time for God, or learning of Him) but there is a place for the grace message, it just has to encourage being totally sold out, and non compromising with the Word of God and obedience to the Word, which i know at least one that does. To teach people to love God, and to honor God, being obedient to every command because it shows Him that we love Him (John 14:21), because He first loved us and gave Himself up for us.

    Paul K and Big Moose say Amen and like this.
  4. It is funny how some see Gods word as oh how bad we are and oh how big sinners we are.
    Jesus preached how blessed we are.
    Every single human born of a woman is born into sin so we are seen as filthy rags.
    Once we accept Christ into our hearts we are WASHED in His Blood and never seen again as filthy sinners by God.........So why in the name of Jesus would any born again spirit filled Child of the most High ever see them selves any different?

    Religion says we are just old sinners saved by grace and we will always be sinners.
    Gods word does not teach us this. Funny how that works out. Gods word is LIFE and Life more abundant. Another words we should be striving through His written word to rise above all this mumbo jumbo worldly religion and Walk as God says we can and Talk as God says we should and Lives as God sent His son to shed His blood so we can.

    Want more boldness - then get in His word until you do.
    For God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7
    fear can be timid - sound mind can be boldness -

    So by Faith get in His word and find the scriptures that cover what have you, and pray them - speak them over your self until you find that is the way you are. it is easy to say hey so and so pray I get more fai9th or pray I get boldness or pray I get understanding and so forth.
    There comes a time that one must step up to the plate and do their own work and take what is theirs.....

    Why did I say all this..............judge your self - are you spiritually where you should be or where God desires you to be ? If not then make the choice and get in His word and get there. No one can do it for you. WE EITHER RISE ABOVE or stay where we are..........the CHOICE IS ALWAYS OURS....................

    God Bless
    Paul K, Euphemia and Cturtle says Amen and like this.
  5. AGREED - and here is where it all starts and continues in becoming a Christian;
    Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren,
    what shall we do?
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
    and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
    40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

    So if everybody complies with the Word of God there should only be one Church and one gospel as there was in the beginning.
    Grant Melville and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  6. 'For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:
    for it is the power of God unto salvation
    to every one that believeth; ... '


    'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
    and that not of yourselves:
    it is the gift of God:
    Not of works,

    lest any man should boast.'

    For we are His workmanship,
    created in Christ Jesus
    unto good works,
    which God hath before ordained
    that we should walk in them.'

    (Eph 2:8-10)

    Praise God!

    Hello there,
    The application of God' s Word, and not man's interpretation of it, is what is required, both for salvation, and for a worthy walk. Each epistle comprises both doctrine and practice, so that the child of God may be fully equipped. Though the principle of 2 Timothy 2:15 is vital if we are to walk and worship in accordance with God's will for the dispensation we are in. For although all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness, not all is about us.

    In Christ Jesus
    KingJ and Major say Amen and like this.
  7. It's about Jesus alone and only He can give the understanding:

    *[[Joh 12:40]] KJV* He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

    Man looks at the outward appearance, God looks to the heart. God wants heart transformation not behavioral modification. Once the heart transformation is in the works, sin is removed, but it's a continual action, a daily work. But as time goes by and you walk in obedience your love of self and the world diminishes and you want more of God and less of you. Then God hears our prayers and we become real disciples not just storefront Christians.
    Grant Melville, KingJ, Nanon and 2 others say Amen and like this.
  8. Well said and I do pray for a revival my brother.
  9. Absolutely!
  10. Good thoughts!
    Cturtle likes this.
  11. What does it mean to "Know God".

    To know God we must base that knowledge in His Word. All men need, I NEED and YOU need a spiritual transformation that we can not perform. Only God can do that through His mercy and Grace.

    You see, Biblical Christianity is not a list of moral requirements that one has to live up to in order to get to heaven. To try and force sinners under the threat of hell, to then act like saints when they do not have the heart or power to do so only produces hypocrites.

    That means you and me have to see ourselves as hopeless slaves to sin and confess that we can not save ourselves. We must then believe what the Bible tells us. It is then that we believe upon Jesus as the Christ who by His blood paid the price that God demanded for our sin.

    Then we by faith in Christ are saved from the penalty of sin which is death.
    My dear friends..........Jesus did not die for our righteousness. HE DIED FOR OUR SINS.

    Jesus did not come to die and save us because we were something special and we were worth saving. HE CAME AND DID THAT BECAUSE WE WERE UTTERLY WORTHLESS.

    Romans 3:11..........
    "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

    Psalms 14:2-3..........
    "The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God.
    They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one. "

    Man seeks fulfillment. Man seeks pleasure. Man seeks escape from pain. But the pure motivation of seeking after God for Himself is a gift from God. We are not saved because we had the wisdom and insight to exercise our own faith and trust God. No one wakes up one day and, on his own, decides to seek God. That would be a salvation by our own works, and Scripture is clear we are saved only by the grace and mercy of God.

    Jesus did not come for anything that was in us..........HE CAME ONLY BECAUSE OF HIS DIVINE LOVE.
  12. #12 kodac, Sep 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2015
    Deuteronomy 28 illuminates how to receive blessings but I don't think it teaches much about timing. It seems counter intuitive, but a person who has never done much wrong can not as fully appreciate God's blessings. In other words, God can sometimes withhold blessings so that He can further mold a person. I wish that I could provide scripture to document. I have lost much of my previous study. Maybe someone will contribute some scriptural documentation.

    God has blessed me way more that I deserve. I have made many mistakes in my life. Sometimes I am haunted by the recollection of past mistakes; something (God I believe) will trigger the memory of something from my past where I have been thoughtless or selfish. These thoughts keep me very humble. Now, as I approach sixty years of age, I have a wonderful life. I am very appreciative. I owe God. I say again, it is counter intuitive, a person who has lived a better life than I have may not be as blessed as I am.

    Grant Melville and Major say Amen and like this.
  13. That means you and me have to see ourselves as hopeless slaves to sin and confess that we can not save ourselves.

    Yes and that is ONLY until we are born again. From the day we become born again we have NO RIGHT what soever as to seeing our selves less then what Jesus died on the cross for. Yes we have a whole lot of perfecting to do in our lives but as we become new creation or creatures in Christ Jesus and the old is passed we are NO LONGER HOPELES SLAVES TO SIN.

    God Bless
    Euphemia, Cturtle and Complete says Amen and like this.
  14. #14 Major, Sep 6, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
    That is correct! We as lost men are salves to sin before we come to Christ.

    We have discussed the old and new nature before Jim and you are free to believe as you wish to. I do hope you do not go in that direction here. You know that I do not believe the Bible teaches that the sin nature is eradicated upon salvation and never will.

    Eph 4:22 says..........
    ‘Put off… the old man, which IS corrupt according to the deceitful lusts.’

    The Old man IS corrupt. Not was. It exists in Christians though crucified in Christ! Paul wouldn’t write that the Old man IS corrupt in believers if it no longer existed or was eradicated.

    I like most everyone else continue to struggle against sin and commit sins on a daily basis but I believe the Lord has shown me where the battle actually is taking place and that He has given me the tools to fight. However, I don't believe I will ever reach a state of sinless perfection until the avenue of temptation (my body) is removed through death or the rapture.
  15. The issue with the Grace message is its misunderstanding. Step by step we are made free from the old man. If one is not moving forward they're falling backwards. Plain and simple. You cannot grow beyond the sin revealed in us. If it is not dealt with then we start falling backwards and into a Pharisee lifestyle, comfortable in and with that sin. We indeed are free from the bondage of sin, but we have to want it enough do deal with it to reap what the Lord has done for us. Only the Holy Spirit can help, from grace to grace. Yes, we are free from sin, but we still suffer its effects when not dealt with. God has not changed. In other words we need to want to walk out of the prison enough to trust God to walk through the open Door. We must follow Jesus and be obedient. Whether sons or not, God does not hear sinners. So what to do...

    Heb 6:1-3 KJV Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.​

    How? Focus. What you focus on is what all your energy goes towards. This is what Hebrews is talking about. He's telling the Jews you focus on the law you will always be in debt to it. If you focus on Jesus and what He did for us, paving the way to obedience, then there is no condemnation. Obedience will always be a requirement, that'll never change, the difference is we don't have the anchor of sin and the law to drag us down. We are free. We just have to act like it and be obedient. That's the scriptural grace message. Read Jesus' prayer to the Father in John 17 and what He said.
    Cturtle and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  16. I like most everyone else continue to struggle against sin and commit sins on a daily basis but I believe the Lord has shown me where the battle actually is taking place and that He has given me the tools to fight. However, I don't believe I will ever reach a state of sinless perfection until the avenue of temptation (my body) is removed through death or the rapture.

    See here Major - God has shown you this AND you say you believe AND then you say - HOWEVER I DONT BELIEVE I will reach this place .....until I am raptured out of here.
    Well Sir with that thinking you are probably correct.

    Faith will NOT work for you beyond your level of believing brother. When we believe we can not get to a place in Christ then we are setting our selves up to fail and almost as if we expect to fail. God tells us that when we have done all TO STAND......Stand on His word and KNOW THAT IT IS TRUTH. With the mind set, I do not believe I will ever get to the place where I dont struggle with sin is NOT STANDING but rather giving in.

    Surrendering to STRUGGLE and turning your back on the GOOD FIGHT OF FAITH which we have already received the victory on or of or in AND YET, we still have to walk it out. I dont believe I can get to this place where I can walk in the spirit and keep the sin nature defeated is saying The Power of the Blood is not big enough for me and my sin nature.

    Brother do you not see that how you believe in the things of the written word of God is also in the same realm of your victory or lack of ? As Brother @Abdicate has said - you got to want it bad enough to do something about it. ALL THE RESOURCES are there for you to walk in victory to victory or Glory to Glory but if you can NOT BELIEVE then you can not receive.

    See your self as a slave to sin - then a slave to sin you shall struggle with.
    God Bless My Loving Brother
    Cturtle likes this.
  17. #17 Major, Sep 6, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
    Romans 7:20 (ESV)

    "Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. "

    That does not seem to fit your opinion my brother. I would be interested in knowing whether you came to your conclusion from reading the Bible or whether it was from what someone has taught you.

    You give good opinions but very little if anything from the Scriptures as a source.

    You are advocating the eradication of the sin nature of men so allow me to ask you, if your sinful nature is eradicated, then please tell me what you believe is the source of your ongoing sin that you still commit both in action and in thought???

    Now I am presuming that you do still sin?
    Is that a correct assumption from reading your comments???

    If you have no sinful nature anymore do you attribute every sin to the direct influence of the devil?
  18. Brother I am not going to go back and forth with you. I said my piece and it was biblical and not opinions and it all is from the bible. It is Faith brother and it is the key to everything God has written.
    Oh and this quote here is one of the most wrongly used piece of wording Paul spoke.
    ((Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.))

    People use this for the reason they have yet to over come area's of sin in their life.
    Like it is a free pass or biblical excuse, for you know how wicked and big this sin nature is......why i dont even think God Himself can set me free from this...........:whistle:

    Did it ever dawn on you brother that Paul was teaching people about WHY they keep doing the things they do not want to do ? It is the undealt with sin nature.

    Here are BUT THREE ways using His word to over come this sin nature or another words not to be a SLAVE TO IT.
    Galatians 5:16 and Romans 12:2 and 2 Corinthians 10:4-5

    Romans 12:2 ....
    And be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God

    (( Get His word in you each and every day and speak His word each and every day ))

    2 Corinthians 10:4-5
    4... For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to pulling down strong holds
    5... Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

    (( Begin to practice the words you speak and thoughts you think for our thoughts and words to control how we act or react and believe. Our own words do more do influence our thinking then most of everything else. ))

    Galatians 5:16
    This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh

    (( The more you do the first two the more you will begin to walk in the Spirit and you will be amazed to say the least. ))

    All done through the Grace of God who maketh all grace abound to me. ( 2 Corinthians 9:8 )

    Now tell me Major how a spirit filled born again believer would have to stay a slave to this sin nature IF they learned how to apply this to their every day life ?

    This does not say nore have I said that this makes any one a perfect man and never does anything wrong or miss the mark BUT we have His grace to fall back on.

    What this is saying and I have said is we dont have to be controlled by this old sin nature.
    We dont have to struggle with LUSTING or lying or anger and adultry and so much more.
    We DO NOT have to take back seat to the flesh and spout off when someone cuts us off the free way. We dont have to evenge our way when we are wronged.

    Now then Major - I apologise for going in another direction with this thread of yours
    However I am just replying to your replies to me so if anything we both are thread high jackers. :p Know what I mean ? :cool:

    God Bless and enjoy your day Major and thank you for replying and not ignoring me.
    Cturtle likes this.
  19. Just so that we are clear.......YOU were the 4th comment in this thread which took it off course to the conversation once again on whether or not the sin nature is eradicated Jim. YOU were the first to start the back and forth and it was ME that responded to your comment. Personally I do not care what it is that is discussed I just like to be clear on it.

    Now then, you stated...........
    "Now tell me Major how a spirit filled born again believer would have to stay a slave to this sin nature IF they learned how to apply this to their every day life ?"

    Since I have NEVER SAID THAT, I can not answer it because I do not believe it!!! I have said that several times now so I am perplexed as to why you would ask me.

    Then you said.................
    "What this is saying and I have said is we dont have to be controlled by this old sin nature."

    Exactly correct and once again I have said exactly that!!

    Then you quote Galatians 5:16............
    "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh".

    Excellent verse to use. Now when we dig deeper into that very verse we see that it is what is called a "Double Negative" in the Greek grammar. That means the aorist subjunctive means you will never gratify the sinful desires originating in and overflowing from the lower nature of sin. That once again means Jim, BIBLICALLY that when God saved us He DID NOT ERADICATE the old sin nature, neither did He reform the old life. What He did was to give us an absolutely NEW LIFE as seen in John 3:6.

    John 3:6..........
    "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

    Therefore the OLD nature is not subject to the law of God neither indeed can it be.

    Romans 8:7...........
    "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be."

    Now then. The Christian can conquer the self-life and have continual victory by walking by the Holy Spirit.

    Now just so that YOU and I are on the same page please read carefully the next verse in Galatians after the one you posted.

    Galatians 5:17.......
    "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish."

    OOOOOPS .........There it is!!!!!

    You can post all the challenges you like, make all the comments you like and you can stand on any teaching you make have been told. But there it is in the black and white of Gods Word my dear brother.

    According to the Bible there is a constant deadly war being waged continually. Bunyan shows that both Christ and Satan long for the passion of the city of Man Soul. The flesh opposes the Spirit in an effort to prevent the believer from a life of obedience and surrender and victory. The Holy Spirit opposes the flesh and gives the believer the victory over it.

    There is according to the verses you posted and the contextual continuation in verse 17 which follows a hostile face to face conflict so that "YE CANNOT DO THE THINGS THAT YE WOULD DO". SO THAT YOU MAY NOT KEEP ON DOING WHATEVER YOU MAY WANT TO DO.

    I enjoy speaking with Jim. You are sincere in what you believe to a fault. But when we speak about this issue of the eradication of the sin nature it seems past history shows that it is only YOU and Me which post comments on it. Now you are not going to change what I believe the Bible says and I am not going to change what you think is the truth. I submit to you that we move on to something else and leave this subject as it is..............In Disagreement just as we have on tongues and prosperity.

    Have a great one as God leads you this week.
  20. #20 Complete, Sep 7, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
    Subject: A Return to Biblical Christianity

    Hello @Major,

    Forgive me, but what (in your estimation) constitutes, 'Biblical Christianity?'

    * The foundation is standard, isn't it?
    Salvation by grace, through faith in the all sufficient sacrifice of God's own Beloved son, our Saviour, now risen and glorified, and sat at God's right hand.

    In Christ Jesus
    Cturtle and Abdicate say Amen and like this.

Share This Page