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A Question For The Atheists

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Brother Paul, May 3, 2014.

  1. Hello board atheists, I have been a Clinical Trial Assistant for over a decade and was an agnostic for decades before EVER coming to believe in a God. This reality cannot be explained adequately from a materialistic viewpoint. Science cannot explain this either (though some have made weak illogical hypothetical attempts)….so read the presentation of these known facts and give your best explanation…

    Genomes are the cell’s information storage systems as well as its directions for the formation of all the proteins necessary for the cell to exist.

    These are assembled through the functioning of the DNA of the host individual. I should add that it is a fact that the DNA can only perform this assembly and production function within the environment of a functional cell, with transcription and translation processes (and the related required partner organelles) already in place.

    There is no free floating DNA that could become or produce its own cellular environment. In fact there is no free floating DNA period (it immediately denatures).

    If there were free floating DNA apart from these other catalysts and sub-systems it can DO nothing!

    The very necessary catalysts of these functions, and the structural proteins of these necessary (in fact required) organelles, are actually made according to the encoding in the self-same DNA without which they cannot perform their required functions in these areas.

    There is no such thing as a living cell (even bacterium) that does not yet have DNA of one form or another). Cells without functional DNA (of which there is no such thing) would be dead!

    DNA simply cannot do what it would do without the other systems and catalysts being functional and in place simultaneously (which are produced according to its instructions), and theycannot exist without there being fully functional DNA encoding already extant.

    Therefore, one cannot precede and continue to exist while the other symbiotic and necessary inter-dependent forms and functions are evolving over thousands or millions of years, it is just not a possibility that exists.

    Partial, incomplete cells, cannot live…

    Therefore, the cell had to become a cell all at once but this negates the theory of a cell as evolving.

    No cell without DNA and no DNA without a cell….and this is not a chicken and egg scenario because in that, one by necessity MUST COME FIRST. In the case of the DNA/Cell scenario, one CANNOT COME FIRST…both simultaneously must be, in order to be at all.
    Mitspa and Cosmicwaffle say Amen and like this.
  2. perhaps this is not the right forum to trigger such argument since i doubt there'd be an atheist here. but for the sake of apologetics this revelation is cool.
    so much similar to the genetic composition of all known animals, including us human beings.
    says that every known animal species came from a single pair, and that species can only lose genetic information, they can not gain it. both disputes evolution.
    how can something evolve, like let's say fish to monkeys without adding genetic information on it? evolution says it's possible, but actual science says it's not.
    on the other hand, if everything came from a single pair how could both things evolve to a pair at the same time? evolution says it's possible, but actual science says it's not.
  3. #3 Cosmicwaffle, May 3, 2014
    Last edited: May 3, 2014
    Hope you don't mind Brother Paul if I ask the atheists some questions, too.

    1. If I am human because my parents were human, and they are human because their parents are human, when in our history were we not human?

    2. If, in order to create a new kind of animal, a mutation must occur where they can no longer breed with the previous kind, wouldn't you have to have TWO mutations of both the male and female reproductive organs? What is the probability of two animals from the same kind, of different gender, both, at the SAME TIME IN HISTORY, mutating PERFECTLY for eachother to breed and thus continue the new kind.

    3. How did anything evolve out of the water? If a fish is made to survive in water, how would any mutation give it the ability to not only move on land, but survive on land. A fish, is made for the water, not oxygen, so how does a fish mutate a set a lungs if oxygen kills it?

    4. How do you suspect that birds evolved? Meaning their feathers, wings, internal organ structure, and lightweight bones. When I hear about evolution it almost sounds like the organism is the one who chooses to evolve. They say, "Well the bird was having trouble flying, so it mutated one day to have lighter bones", almost as if the bird is the one who chooses what mutation to have!

    5. How do you suspect, even if over billions of years, life got to where it is? I know secular biologists say "A very long time of mutations, and nature selecting which traits are beneficial.", but how do you explain why things are so... idk, intelligent? As far as I know, mutations are not intelligent, but are random, and MOST OF THE TIME they are DAMAGING! I don't care if you stuck trillions of years in our history, life would NEVER turn out like this. We'd all be terrifying and very disformed, grunting noises and biting into eachothers' necks. IF that! I doubt life could have arisen, or the universe for that matter, without a creative/intelligent force/being.

    6. How did genders evolve?

    I know you might think some of these are trivial questions, but please, if you may, answer them.
  4. this is answerable, but this will not prove evolution.
    birds becoming more lightweight is not an evolution but adaptation, it does not require adding genetic information. For as long as a specie can and has the ability to change it will under certain circumstances, you can find more of these adaptations at the galapagos island.
    still that can't deny the existence of a Creator.
  5. No actually there are about three atheists on board and since it is fair that they can ask us question after question I see no reason they should at least address this...I have about three other unsurpassable dilemmas for them but I figured I would try and hear from them when the table has been turned (however I doubt they will have a materialist solution that can explain it)
  6. #7 goggles, May 3, 2014
    Last edited: May 3, 2014
    I don't know anything about this and as a clinical trial assistant I would naturally assume you, brother Paul, to know more about it than I do (I'm just an unemployed bum who plays a lot of golf).

    Feel free to ask any questions you want because I am not offended by them at all but your query may be better suited and you will find the answers infinitely more knowledgeable on a science/biology forum.

    Just for the record, the closest thing I would identify myself to would be agnostic.
  7. #8 BalooU, May 3, 2014
    Last edited: May 3, 2014
    Why does it matter? We will never know how matter exist in the first place. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. I don't really believe how science explains the big bang. It just seems like it's mumbo jumbo. Even in the case where evolution can be false, it doesn't disprove the possibility of some other God (that is nonbiblical) created all matter and just leave the life alone for themselves. We can never know the true quality of that particular God who created everything. I'm not an atheist. I don't deny the existence of a deity. It is probable that a deity (that is nonbiblical) exist back then but we can't prove that deity have any relevant impact on us today. I dont know where you are going with this. You can't prove anything on what happens in the afterlife. If you want to talk about the afterlife, go there yourself naturally, and talk to me.

    Even if the bible is "accurate", we can never know who get the credit for making the universe. There's a possibility that some other deity created all matter and just attribute everything to the biblical god (who did nothing in the creation process) and mind controlled people to write about the biblical god and have other people believe that there is such thing as a biblical god. The purpose of this is just to stay hidden from their creation. The true creator probably doesn't want to us to know so the creator just created everything and just attribute everything to the biblical god (which have no impact on our lives).
  8. Why would a deity create something, then stop being interested? That's a pretty lazy deity. The God of the Bible not only cares about us but commands us in the ways of righteousness, he sets us free from darkness and death, and gives us life through Jesus!
  9. Meh. It is still probable that a deity create something then stop being interested. It's the same reason on why we were interested in something and just want to give up on something. Lazy or not, that deity can create everything then stop being interested. It doesn't negate that possibility. Some mothers have children that she thought she wants to have but in the end, she doesn't do anything with the child and have it for adoption. That's the same with the deity. We can't know the true quality of a deity unless we meet that deity in person.
  10. the thing about Christianity sir's is that it finds its uniqueness in its objective truth, not merely subjective sentimentality.

    be it an agnostic or what, consider life as a belief store, you can choose whatever you want to believe, but at the end you have to exit the store and you'll pay for whatever you believed, and the payment for that is life, after that, no one knows what will happen next. our purpose is to make the right decision.
  11. Got to say this, Genesis of all the cosmogonies is the only one that actually made sense
    if Genesis were merely authored by humans and inspired by surrounding creation stories, you would expect it to be marked by local prejudices and national character.
  12. Why believe or care about a God who is too lazy to care himself? I believe in an Intelligent God, and that alone makes him Caring, Loving, Righteous, and Active. There is no reason for an all-knowing God to create something then back off, that's just stupid. Isn't that called deism?
  13. Actually the first law of thermodynamics only applies within the Universe...the idea is that at the moment of becoming (Bang) all matter/energy present then is present now...but once it was not, and then (Bang) it was...the scientific assumption is it all appeared in about 1 10th of a second...(God said...and it was)...

    Now then if there is a God that created everything (you called Him Bob)...if He created everything He is God...and we are not talking about the afterlife (???)...to close that derailment...no, no one alive can "prove" what happens in the afterlife...we simply believe the one who came back and told us...
  14. just because christianity seems "objective", it doesn't negate the fact that the lazy god argument. The lazy god argument can attribute everything to the biblical God just to stay hidden. Just because that god is "lazy", doesn't mean that god didn't create everything.

    "after that, no one knows what will happen next"
    I totally agree with this. No one can know for sure on what happens in the afterlife.

    the purpose is to be as good as possible. I draw very poorly but I practice everyday just to get better so I can help my friends out with their banners, and their cartoons.
  15. You still cannot negate a god who created everything and actually guide people to goodness, but that isn't the biblical god as described. What if that god actually does care about us but doesn't expect us to believe in Jesus but will be happy as long as we are doing our best to help each other out.
  16. You cannot ever disprove this. Nor can I prove this possibility either. If you want to prove that Jesus is actually God, tell him to come down right now and show his face to everyone. I have a lot of questions for him.
  17. What does a god like that think about all of our wickedness? Does he leave it unpunished? That would be not caring.
  18. This is getting off topic. so how does this suppose to negate the possibility of a lazy god creating the whole universe again? Just because a god that created everything is lazy, doesn't necessarily mean the lazy god DIDNT create everything. This is what we are debating about. Please do not go off topic.
  19. yeah and you do admit that Christianity is the closest to reality, everything else that follows is faith. thanks :)

    uh-huh, i doubt that. you know humans, my friend, reality bites. but without fear or love of God, human beings can never be good enough.

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