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A Problem to solve in Christian theology

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by John Zain, Jun 24, 2011.

  1. Jesus was “fully God”, right?
    We have 80 verses teaching us that Jesus is God, is equal to Father God,
    is the Creator of all things, is the Sustainer now of all things, is the Giver of eternal life, etc.

    But, Jesus depended on Father God’s words, instructions, etc.
    John 3:22 “And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies …”
    Do verses such as 3:22 refer to Jesus in heaven? or Jesus on earth in prayer?
    John 8:26 “… I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”
    John 8:28 “… I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.”

    John 8:40 “… a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God.”
    John 10:18 “This command I have received from My Father.”
    John 14:31 “… and as My Father gave Me commandment, so I do.”
    John 15:15 “… for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.”

    And, Jesus depended on the Holy Spirit’s power to perform miracles
    Matt. 12:28 “But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God …”
    Luke 4:18 “The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, because He has anointed Me …”
    Luke 5:17 “… He (Jesus) was teaching … And the power of the Lord was present to heal them.”
    Acts 10:38 “… how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power,
    who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.”


    How are we to tell the world that Jesus is “fully God” when we are confronted with these verses?
     
  2. That is a difficult question, but the Scriptures also say ....

    As we look at Scriptures from an uneducated view - and most who read the Bible are uneducated in understanding of the original language - it might seem that Jesus never claimed to be God, or oin some cases, even denied it. But if we keep things in context, we don't need to be scholars of biblical languages to see, Jesus clearly claimed to be God the Father!

    First look at John chapter 1o:
    30 The Father and I are one."31 The Jews again picked up rocks to stone him.32 Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of these are you trying to stone me?"33 The Jews answered him, "We are not stoning you for a good work but for blasphemy. You, a man, are making yourself God."

    This is not the best example as people who are familiar with the Scripiutres will read on and say Jesus denied it, but I studied the word one a while back. I lost the info when my PC crashed, but the meaning of the original language used, did not mean "one mind" as in agreement with each other. It meant "one essence".


    That is why the Jews picked up stones to throw at Jesus. They knew he wasn't simply saying he agreed with God, but that he is God!
     
    gemma likes this.
  3. A better example is John 8:
    58 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM."59 So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area.

    Again, I lost my research, but the Jews would not have tried to kill Jesus for saying he was 100's or even 1,000's of years old. As a mere man they would simply say he was crazy to discredit him.


    But, the Jews knew by the words he chose, that Jesus was claiming to be the One and Only God - that was cause for the death penalty!!!
     
  4. And finally, John 1:1 states Jesus is the Word and the Word is God.
     
    gemma likes this.
  5. Now concerning the verses which seem to state Jesus is a separate being from God, .....

    Most of these were in response to Jesus authority being questioned. Jesus was stating that he had authority. He was not just some man preaching and teaching his own ideas, but that what he preached came from the ultimate authority -the One and Only God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

    Jesus was not denying himself, he was proclaiming his authority! And he was doing it in a way that human beings could understand.

    Also, you should note that Jesus time had not come to reveal his identity to the World. People didn't know who he was and Jesus had to prepare them before they would be ready to accept the truth.

    He even told his disciples not to tell anyone after Peter said "“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” "
     
  6. Ginger, Sorry you lost your notes.
    How could Jesus be claiming to be the Father when He was always praying to the Father?
    And He told the Jews that He was the Son of God.
    And He said He was "I AM" 7 times, for example:
    "If you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24).
    [B][FONT=Trebuchet MS]In these 7 verses, there is NO "he" after "I AM" in the original Greek ...[/FONT][/B]
    John 4:26, John 8:24, John 8:28, John 8:58, John 13:19, John 18:6, John 18:8
     
  7. I AM is a reference to Exodus where Moses talks to God in the burning Bush and God tells Moses that when he is asked who sent him, he should reply I AM sent me....or something like that.

    Jesus did not say "I am he", he said "I AM"

    It is not in Jesus words that I see the meaning, but in the reaction of the Jews who were talking with him.

    They spoke the same language as Jesus and clearly understood what Jesus meant. So we do not have to depend as much on translators, instead we can understand what Jesus was claiming because those who spoke the language tell us.

    They said he claimed to be God and that was blasphemy. The disciples worshipped Jesus. They were Jews and would not worship anyonme but God, yet they did worship Jesus.

    So, tell me, are you asking to find answers for someone else, or are you here to question us? You present it like the first, but I've had this feeling from the beginning that's not it.

    Ginger
     
    gemma and Major say Amen and like this.
  8. I am here to ask for help on solving the question ...
    Since Jesus was fully God, why didn't He act like it?
     
  9. John, I do hope that you are a sincere believer and not a skeptic trying to do nothing but be argumentative. I only say that because your original post seems earily similiar to some web sites that encourage division. I hope I am wrong but needed to say to you before responding to your question.

    A proper understanding of these truths clears up much confusion and many difficulties we may have in our mind. How can Jesus be both God and man? Why doesn't this make Him two people? How does His Incarnation relate to the Trinity? How could Jesus have hungered (Matthew 4:2) and died (Mark 15:37) when He was on earth, and yet still be God? Did Jesus give up any of His divine attributes in the Incarnation? Why is it inaccurate to say that Jesus is a "part" of God? Is Jesus still human now, and does He still have His human body?

    How does the fact that God is three Persons in one Being relate to the incarnation? To answer this, let's consider another question. Which Person became incarnate in Jesus Christ? All three? Or just one? Which one? The Biblical answer is that only God the Son became incarnate. The Father did not become incarnate in Jesus, and neither did the Holy Spirit. Thus, Jesus is God, but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God the Son.

    The truth that it is only God the Son who became incarnate is taught, for example, in John 1:14, which says "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." In context, the word is God the Son (cf. vv. 1, 18, and 3:16). Thus, it wasn't the Father or the Holy Spirit who became man, but God the Son.

    Why is it important to know that Jesus is specifically God the Son? For one thing, if we do not understand this we will be mistaken about the very identity of our savior. Further, it greatly affects how we relate to our triune God. If we think that Jesus is the Father and/or the Holy Spirit, we will be greatly misguided and confused in our prayers. Last, it is considered heresy to believe that the Father became incarnate in Jesus.
     
  10. "Since Jesus was fully God, why didn't He act like it? "
    As a mortal, with your mind and understanding extremely limited to the self and the era in which you live "How would you expect God to behave?"
    What is it in His behavior that confuses you?
    His mission was to convey the "Good News", show by works that He was who He claimed to be, live an exemplary life, and die for our sins.
    What part of that bothers you?
     
  11. Excellant point!

    When I think about it, all He did was to create the universe, solar system, earth, man, animals, plants, part the Red sea, part the River Jordan, and on and on and on.
     
  12. I guess you'll have to read Post #1.
     
  13. Major,
    I fully understand Rev. 19:13 and John 1:1 and John 1:14, etc.
     
  14. I've read post #1, you should have been percieving while you were reading my post.
    "But, Jesus depended on Father God’s words, instructions, etc."
    During His entire ministry Jesus was leading by example, showing His followers how they were to approach God by example.
    During the incarnation, God the Son, set aside His "use of Godhead", and lived as a man, all God and all man.
    "And, Jesus depended on the Holy Spirit’s power to perform miracles."
    During His entire ministry Jesus was leading by example, showing His followers how they were to approach God by example.
    During the incarnation, God the Son, set aside His "use of Godhead", and lived as a man, all God and all man.
     
  15. Glomung,

    Yes, this is the only explanation that makes sense.
    I was wanting to see where you guys are coming from.

    Here's a related idea ...
    Jesus had 2 natures:
    One nature was GOD … He was the Son of God ... He was “fully GOD”.
    One nature was MAN … He was the son of Mary ... He was “fully MAN”.
    His MAN nature was (naturally) subordinate to the Father and the Holy Spirit.
     
  16. These questions are valid and legitimate that every professing Christian should ask. Let us remember many people may profess to know JESUS CHRIST, but are they not subject to His rebuke?

    John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

    Who is really the FATHER? Many people may describe Him, but what is His true IDENTITY that may lead to the identity of the One True God. Thus,

    Who is the GOD of Abraham and Moses?
    What is His name?

    Who is the GOD of Peter and Paul?
    What is His name?

    Who the GOD that the "elect" will meet in heaven and to be with in eternity?
    What His name?
     
  17. My mother-in-law died while giving birth to her 4th child.
    She went to heaven, and Jesus gave her the choice to stay or go back and raise her children.
    Many people have reported they they have talked to Jesus in heaven and came back.
     
  18. John Zain, I suppose you want a definite answer to your questions.
    God answers this "by divine revelations" through His written words.
    This is by tracing JESUS CHRIST back to the GOD of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses.

    Here is the verse to begin with:

    1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

    (To be continued)
     
  19. Confucious says ... God's precious Scriptures are of no benefit to those who don't believe them

    Confusion says ... God's precious Scriptures are open to a multitude of interpretations.
    1 Corinthians 2:1-16 says you gotta have the "mind" (the Spiritual witness) of Christ to comprehend scripture.

    Truth says ... John 14:6, John 3:16-17, John 3:3, Romans 10:8-13, Ephesians 2:8-9 are where you need to hang

    your hat. Then study, to show yourself approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed. Being
    ashamed is going to happen to a lot of folks who misinterpret scripture in the flesh, John. Doesn't mean that
    you are lost, just that you'll bring up the rear.
     
  20. Oky-Doky, Dok ...
    All I did in Post #1 was ask a question resembling: Why didn't Jesus act like he was "fully God"?
    And some of you went berserko.
    Congrats to Glomung in Post #14 for giving the best answer.
    Doky, 14 comes after 13.
     

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