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A new perspective on Baptism

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by mikeOfChrist, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. A new perspective on Baptism

    I Have come here today to disscuss some of the Various meanings and use of the term Baptisim:

    When we are saved are we not Baptised by the indwelling of the Spirit of God The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    And on the other hand was not water Baptism, and is it still not today, only a symbolic Baptism to show obedience -if We are so convicted of Our need for water Baptism, because are We not already Baptised by Salvation.

    When I lived in the midwest, I had belonged to an "Independant Fundamentalist Bible Baptist Church," which required Baptism for Membership in the Church as an act and declaration of obedience only. In fact they required Us to have an informal sit down disscussion, one on one, with the Pastor, in which We were questioned as to the details of Our salvation, and the understanding for Our conviction to be baptised, and join the church. And the Pastor, made sure We understood that water Baptism was not a requirement for, or a part of, Our salvation -as the Pastor made sure I knew that We are not saved by the Baptism, but that it was required to join the Church.

    And in fact did not Jesus request Baptism of Himself as a symbolic act, to fullfill "all righteousness," in God's plan of presenting Christ as Our Passover lamb, sprinkled, and anointed, and presented without blemish of His own, to be sacrificed for Us all.

    And was not Pentacost required specificaly as a one time act, to also teach the significance of the indweling of the Spirit, because We can quench the True Inner Kingdom of God and of Heaven, if We quench Our obedience to God, and Quench the Spirit of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, which indwells within Us.

    And therefore are not the actual events of the Apostolic Church as is recorded in the Book of Acts, events to "Teach," and "Show," not only events relavent in their day, but for all of Our days, before the Second Comming of Christ, establishes whatever new way of viewing and living in the Kingdom of God will mean in that day.

    I was saved, and given gifts the second I was saved, and required no waiting of an interval of Time to recieve gifts upon My salvation,

    However, sometimes it does require time before We are given gifts of the Spirit -as God deals with Us as individuals. And as "The Angel Food-like Cake," that hopefully We may resemble as much as may be possible in Our lives, do We not sometimes require a little more, or a little less ingredients than others, and do we not sometimes require a little more, or a little less time in the mixing of our ingredients, and finaly do we not sometimes require a little more, or less cooking time -in Our lives, as unique and quite different individuals than everyone else?????????

    are we to Question the Master Chef, God the Father, who was able to Bake the Perfect "Bread OF Life," for Us, when as the "Angel Food-Like Cakes" that We are, may require a little more, or a little less cooking than others?????????????

    Is an "Angel Food-Like Cake" to question it's Master Chef, and Maker???????????????? Of cource not!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So Why question if the Pouring of the Spirit upon those gathered at Pentacost, as a unique situation at that place and time in the History of the early Church, required the waiting of a certain length of time, While My recieving of Gifts required no additional amount of time at all??????????

    So do We not sometimes read to much into a Text, and it's required meanings by Us???????? Maybee the Special event of Pentacost, was a Prized winning Special Spiritual Souffle, while I was only a small frozen "Angel Food-Like Cake," which required a quick "Nuking," once saved?????????????

    Are not Baptisms of Water, Spirit, Fire not mentioned in the Gospels: Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16

    And therefore do we read to much into the meaning of water Baptism alone, when it is a Symbolic act of God baptising Us in The Spirit of the indwelling of God The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost, upon salvation,

    And do We take the physical nature of Water Baptism physicaly on earth, as a symbolic act of obedience in the wrong way -as it symbolises Our Repentance, Surender, and obedience -which speaks to real and Inner Spiritual Baptisms Given to Us by God, even if We are not "Baptists," or of a "Baptisim," tradition?????????????

    Are We to say that only those who are Baptised with Water are saved. And as in a post I read here, if an individual, who has recieved salvation, trips and dies on His way to being baptised, is He not saved?????????

    Or if We in Our attempt to take the Bible to "Litteraly," when it's sometimes symbolic acts, show the Spiritual act, behind the "Symbolic act," and only follow the symbolic Act?????????????

    Does not the N.T. events take place in Israel, and the Mediteranian?????????? And if we were to aply such litteralism, as we sometimes seem to do, then are We not required, by extension of such logic, to be Baptised in the "Jordan River," or one of the other body of waters used in the N.T. only, because I do not see "tub," or "Baptismal Pools," in the Midwest or southern parts of the United States mentioned in the N.T.????????????????????

    So You see My points, I hope, that Baptisims in the N.T. can be examples of obedience to fullfill all righteousness, and symbolic acts of obedience -reflecting what inwardly has and is occuring in a believers life. Because Are You going to tell Me that all born again christians who do not beleive in water Baptisim in their own lives, means they are not saved??????????

    Are not these the questions we are to ask Ourselves, if We come to question this topic, and then decide Our beliefs one way or the other????????

    And did not God forsee, sysmbolic meanings We may need to see, and take passages, out of their original context, for symbolic explainations and meanings to other texts, such as from the 1st Chapter of Genesis, if We were to need see if it answeres Our questions, say int the N.T.??????????? And Are We not to meditate upon, and Pray about, if these meanings are their from within God's word, to answer these same Questions????????

    And are We to meditate and pray upon the following passage, to see if it speaks to Us, and was so recorded, so that outside of it's simple original context, that God knew and anticipated Our needs to seek answers on this subject indeed:

    Genesis 1:6-8 "Then God said, 'Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters , and let it seperate the waters from the waters. And God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. And God called the expanse heaven..."

    Could god not also have been epeaking to Us of seperating the physical waters of Baptism below, thru the expanse of His Heavens, to their Spiritual Waters of Truth above,

    And extend the Spiritual Waters of the Baptism from Above, thru the Heavens to Us below, and Our physical water Baptisms, and Our Spiritual Baptisms requested thru prayer,

    Can we not reciece Baptisms of the gifts of the Spirit as We grow, and are given them by God, as He wills, without that act requiring water Baptism to make it so, and therefore can We not Recieve Spiritual Waters of Baptism from God above, even while possibly unawares, while there is no physical water baptism taking place below????????

    These are the questions I have come here today to ask, and pose to Us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I have tried to do the best I can with some perplexing questions,and hope I have done a reasonable job with

    May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen.

  2. As you have already seen there are many views on this subject here. I am saved by grace thru faith and as such I am obediant to the commands of my Lord. The fire baptism, the Holy Ghost baptism, the water baptism are all part of our walk as Christians. As far as gifts they are freely given and must be received gracefully.
  3. I don't think I could have said it any better :D
    Thank you brother :)
  4. I agree Well said Boanerges.

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