Yes. IT was an act of obedience which we all should follow.
2 Timothy 2:15
- Thread starter Truth
- Start date
Yes. IT was an act of obedience which we all should follow.
1st.........YOU did not post the verses in Hebrews.
2nd........How do you know that Paul wrote Hebrews?
Are you beginning to see why Euphemia encouraged you to do more STUDY????
Gerald, "truth"(?) did not misunderstand you at all. He simply rejects the Bible truth that we have all posted for him.
He is what paul referred to as a "Judizer", and is the reason why he wrote to the Galatians. The people who think like "truth"(?) do not accept the shed blood of the Lord Jesus as enough to save the sinner. They insist that In addition to the blood, we must incorporate the rituals of the Old Test., hence their insistence on water baptism.
I am sure he means well but somewhere along the line of life he has fallen in with those who do not study to show themselves approved, a workman who rightly divides the Word of God.
I feel a wee bit strange quoting myself from another thread, but I think this might provide an answer to our friend @Truth's difficulty:
Don't misunderstand me though. I believe by the scriptures we ARE called to be baptised. But not for the reasons given by 'truth'
In Christian Gerald
The list is easyly found and should be already known by any student of the bible.
My not giving the chapter and verse is no reason to reject what is said there.
You may debate who wrote it.I will not. The simple matter is that it is so written.
Unless of course you wish to deny what is written in Hebrews simply over some contention by some as to who actually wrote it,
In christ
Gerald
I agree my brother. We are and we should be however that act does not overshadow or replace the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.
Gerald. I apologize to you for the "more study needed" said to you. I honestly thought I was responding to Mr. "truth" (?) as many have encouraged him to do just that. Please forgive me.
However, it is customary and considerate to post the exact Scripture when conversing so that all of us are on the same page. Whether or not it is easily found or whether or not a we are a student or a professor is not the question.
Then for the book of Hebrews. I did not reject anything at all, only questioned your claim that it was Paul WHO wrote Hebrews, I do not know of anyone who can or has said definitely who is the author. The fact is that NO ONE KNOWS and if we were meant to know then God would have made it clear.
Over the years I have heard and read many wonderful scholars and some have said Paul, others Dr. Luke, some say Barnabas is another likely prospect. Martin Luther suggested Apollos, since he would have had the education the writer of this letter must have had. Priscilla and Clemet of Rome have been suggested by other scholars. The bottom line.......No one knows for sure.
That was all I was intending.
Why does it take so many words to say nothing .
The scriptures are very clear .
Acts 2:38 baptism for the remission of sins .Acts 22:16 baptism to wash away sins .
When any scriptures are denied, all scriptures are denied.
It is very evident to me that only the milk of the Word can be consumed at this time .
The scriptures are very clear .
Acts 2:38 baptism for the remission of sins .Acts 22:16 baptism to wash away sins .
When any scriptures are denied, all scriptures are denied.
It is very evident to me that only the milk of the Word can be consumed at this time .
Yes ,when you are baptized you call on the name of the Lord ,the same as saying that you believe in Jesus Christ .Verses which have remission in the KJV, all having to do with remission of sin.
Mat 26:28
Mark 1:4
Luke 1:77
Luke 3:3
Luke 24:47
Act 2:38
Act 10:43
Rom 3:25
Heb 9:22
Heb 10:18
Romans 6 is a good read, for understanding how we enter in to Jesus Christ and become a new creature / born again ,in newness of life .
Hello Big Moose,
I am thankful that you have been given grace to respond with love: but with the greatest respect, your conclusion, that water baptism for Christians can be for the same reason, 'To make Christ known', though it sounds great, does not have Spiritual backing. It is a conclusion based on an assumption, and that is not sound, is it?
These symbolic acts had purpose and meaning, which were Divine in origin, to use them for a purpose, no matter how well meaning, for which they were not intended is wrong, I believe. It simply muddies the waters and takes away the clearness of purpose for which they were designed.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
Hello @Euphemia,
Yes, this was the anointing of Messiah, as you say, and anointing was accompanied by washing or immersion (Ex. 29:4-7; 40:12; Lev. 8:6), 'And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water.' This was, fulfilling all righteousness, as our Lord said, in Matthew 3:15, was incumbent upon both John the Baptist, as the prophet, and Himself as the Messiah, to fulfill.
Yet, I do not believe that your thinking, that every Christian who submits to water baptism receives an anointing at the same time. can be true: for such an important fact would have been recorded in Scripture, for our learning; and to my knowledge it does not.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
I agree that not everyone receives the same kind of anointing at their water baptism. Some receive it at the salvation experience and others when they receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and yet others at any time in their walk with the Lord. It's all to do with God's timing.
Blessings!
With the amount of grace we who are born again have been given, we should always be giving it away and sharing grace. Even through the stark and easily misunderstood words on a computer screen, you (Chris) always have Christ's love shining thru.
I believe Jesus' baptism was an example for us to follow, just as He said when He washed the disciples feet, "15 For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. "
I laid out a long post, #61 in this thread, explaining what has been shown me recently on baptism.
Scripture directing that Jesus is our example to follow is:
Romans 8:29
1 Corinthians 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
1 Peter 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us,f]'>[f] leaving usg]'>[g] an example, that you should follow His steps
I hope this makes it easier to understand where I am coming from.
Blessing
Hello @geralduk,
I hope I can address all of your points, for you took the time and made the effort to respond to me, for which I thank you.
let us go on unto perfection; (or maturity)
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works,
and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms,
and of laying on of hands,
and of resurrection of the dead,
and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit.'
(Heb 6:1,2)
* That He may fulfill all righteousness in regard to His anointing as Messiah. (Matt. 3:15; Ex. 29:4-7)
Yes, Gerald, we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God Who is working in us to do of His good pleasure. (Phil 2:12), they were to hold forth the word of truth, as lights shining in a dark place, to the glory of God. Again, it is a matter of enduring to the end, and of being faithful under trial, for their salvation and standing before God was already 'sure': it was the prize, the reward for faithful service that they sought, to the glory of God.
All praise to God's wondrous grace.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
I hope I can address all of your points, for you took the time and made the effort to respond to me, for which I thank you.
'Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ,
let us go on unto perfection; (or maturity)
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works,
and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms,
and of laying on of hands,
and of resurrection of the dead,
and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit.'
(Heb 6:1,2)
* In Philippians 3: 15, Paul sought to attain unto the exanastasis ( or out-resurrection), out from among dead-ones, and was eager to go on to the end, and touch the tape - that was perfection - in regard to service, to be faithful unto the end. Which he proved to be. Praise God!
* Christ is our righteousness, though, isn't he, Gerald?
* That He may be manifested to Israel. (John 1:31)
* That He may fulfill all righteousness in regard to His anointing as Messiah. (Matt. 3:15; Ex. 29:4-7)
* Why?
* We are identified by God the Father, in the death, burial, quickening, resurrection, ascension and seating of Christ Jesus, our risen Lord. That is a work that required no action on our part, it was achieved as a result of the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ upon the cross, and is ours on believing. (Romans 5:12-8:39; Eph. 2:1-7; Col.2:12,13). Our baptism is of the Spirit.
* In Philippians 3:10.11, Paul is referring to resurrection, He desired to know the power of Christ's resurrection, He wanted to attain to the out-resurrection (exanastasis).
Yes, Gerald, we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God Who is working in us to do of His good pleasure. (Phil 2:12), they were to hold forth the word of truth, as lights shining in a dark place, to the glory of God. Again, it is a matter of enduring to the end, and of being faithful under trial, for their salvation and standing before God was already 'sure': it was the prize, the reward for faithful service that they sought, to the glory of God.
* Yes, there are indeed, vista's our eyes have yet to see, by faith, in the Spirit: and I for one have much to learn. I Praise God! That He delights to make His Truths known, and that the Holy Spirit's work is to take of the things of Christ and make them ours.
All praise to God's wondrous grace.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Hello @Big Moose,
Thank you for coming back to me on this, I will read your previous post again, (for I know the one you are referring to) along with this one, so that I will fully understand what you believe on this.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
Thank you, @Euphemia,
Forgive me, but I know nothing of anointing.
The only verse I can find is in (1John 2:27)
'But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you,
and ye need not that any man teach you:
but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things,
and is truth,
and is no lie,
and even as it hath taught you,
ye shall abide in Him.'
* I will need to think further about this, and hopefully come back to you. (GW)
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
People quote line verse and chapter but people still deny the scriptures.
Hebrews is no obscure book or chapter. Any student of the Bible knows it and any true searcher of light can find it. So are you suggesting that it is not so written? That the doctrine of Baptism is not simply part of the milk of the Word? Yet some have made it as meat and others even here neither understand the doctrine and contend against it.All knowing chapter and verse!
If you wish to contend the authorship of Hebrews. I will not.
But do you then by your contention or doubt (?) deny both the content and the authority because you do not know who wrote it?
If so what point would there be even if I gave chapter and verse? Yet if you do why raise the subject up that gives
Has nothing to do with the matter in hand?
In christ
Gerald
Hebrews is no obscure book or chapter. Any student of the Bible knows it and any true searcher of light can find it. So are you suggesting that it is not so written? That the doctrine of Baptism is not simply part of the milk of the Word? Yet some have made it as meat and others even here neither understand the doctrine and contend against it.All knowing chapter and verse!
If you wish to contend the authorship of Hebrews. I will not.
But do you then by your contention or doubt (?) deny both the content and the authority because you do not know who wrote it?
If so what point would there be even if I gave chapter and verse? Yet if you do why raise the subject up that gives
Has nothing to do with the matter in hand?
In christ
Gerald
I will reply to each with a different post both for clarity and for any body just coming into the matter.
Hebrews 6:1 says that "baptisms" are the milk of the Word. The foundational principles, if you will the side pieces and corners of a jigsaw puzzle.
That the church has not gone much further one than these and indeed from the reformation when all these things were given to the church and understood at the time.
"Baptisms" There are only two baptisms that the scriptures speak of.water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The one deals with the old life and the life of the flesh in so much that it must now be in submission to the Spiritual life.and declaring or confessing it so.and the baptism of the Spirit wherein we are baptised into the body of Christ.
In Christ
Gerald
When you can answer these questions you will know the truth .
Why did Philip mention baptism to the Eunuch ?
Why did Paul mention baptism to the jailer and his household ?
Why was baptism mentioned to Paul ?
Why was baptism brought up to Cornelius and his household ?
If all were already saved , why were they being baptized ?
If you believe that baptism not required .
Answer - they were not saved until they had their sins removed.
No one will enter Heaven if their sins have not been removed .
Do not trust any doctrine that must add words to prove their beliefs !!
Those that post on this threaf ,say that baptism is a command , and then say it is not required .
Question - if something is a command ,does that also mean that it is required ?
If God required something ,will He allow us to make it optional to our salvation .