2 Cor 5:8 study

[ATP]

In a forum like this, it is more important to share views and the reasons behind them (and understand those of others) than to be too concerned with 'correction' of others.

I do agree.

Hey, what are your thoughts on post 75.

 

[Siloam]

I do agree.

Hey, what are your thoughts on post 75.

Word studies are important, but too much can be made of nuances. Some scripture is descriptive and should be taken as such. Some are definitive and needs to be taken narrowly.

Figuring out which is which is the crux.

Om the case of resurrection, we must realize that the very subject is outside of our daily experience. Words like 'sleep' are used in ways that are only analogous to the common meaning.

You should also recognize that the purpose of scripture is to bring us closer to its author, and not to replace its author. The Bible is not and answer-book that relieves the believer of listening to the Holy Spirit.

 

[ATP]

Word studies are important, but too much can be made of nuances. Some scripture is descriptive and should be taken as such. Some are definitive and needs to be taken narrowly.

Figuring out which is which is the crux.

Om the case of resurrection, we must realize that the very subject is outside of our daily experience. Words like 'sleep' are used in ways that are only analogous to the common meaning.

You should also recognize that the purpose of scripture is to bring us closer to its author, and not to replace its author. The Bible is not and answer-book that relieves the believer of listening to the Holy Spirit.

You are wise in your years. Nice to meet you. - ATP

Scripture can be meant for other things though.

2 Tim 3:16-17 NIV All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[Siloam]

So, with a little understanding of our several positions, is there more to this thread?

ATP: Can we continue with your discussion?

 

[ATP]

So, with a little understanding of our several positions, is there more to this thread?

ATP: Can we continue with your discussion?

Sure, let's continue. Do you have further questions.

 

[CCW95A]

Sure, let's continue. Do you have further questions.

You might be forgetting something here. When a person becomes born again by the Spirit, through Word of God, they are immediately transferred into the Kingdom of God, and are now sitting on the right hand of God in Christ Jesus. This in not some future event. They are not asleep but awake. The body is NOT man as the Apostle Paul tells us to "present our bodies as a living sacrifice unto God". Paul did NOT say, "present your self unto God"!!! That is because we are not our body, we are "spirit beings"

As it is written, "he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor 6:17) Where do you think the Spirit of God goes when a persons physical body dies?

 

[ATP]

You might be forgetting something here. When a person becomes born again by the Spirit, through Word of God, they are immediately transferred into the Kingdom of God, and are now sitting on the right hand of God in Christ Jesus. This in not some future event. They are not asleep but awake. The body is NOT man as the Apostle Paul tells us to "present our bodies as a living sacrifice unto God". Paul did NOT say, "present your self unto God"!!! That is because we are not our body, we are "spirit beings"

As it is written, "he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor 6:17) Where do you think the Spirit of God goes when a persons physical body dies?

I agree we do inherit the kingdom when we're born again, but scripture specifically states that the breath of life is removed upon death. How are we awake in heaven without the breath of life?

 

[Euphemia]

And only God is immortal. Immortality is given to us as a gift at the first resurrection. 1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV.

Immortal / adjective
1. not mortal; not liable or subject to death; undying: our immortal souls.
2. not liable to perish or decay; imperishable; everlasting.
3. perpetual; lasting; constant: an immortal enemy.

Mortal / adjective
1. subject to death; having a transitory life: all mortal creatures.
2. of or relating to human beings as subject to death; human: this mortal life.
3. belonging to this world.
4. causing or liable to cause death; fatal: a mortal wound.

The word perish, decay and death only relates to nonbelievers..

John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Acts 2:27 NIV because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, you will not let your holy one see decay.
Rev 20:14 NIV Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

The word imperishable and everlasting only relate to believers..

Matt 25:46 NIV "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

Immortality is a gift, given to us by the Father..

Gen 3:21-24 NIV The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

1 Tim 6:16 NIV who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

- ATP

We have immortality even now.

 

[Euphemia]

Well, many Christians believe we are walking, talking and praising God in the third heaven as spirit people or ghosts,
while the spirits of nonbelievers are in a temporary hell right now. It's only logical to correct them.

Correct who about what?

 

[ATP]

We have immortality even now.

But 1 Cor 15:50-54 says we don't. It says we obtain it at the first resurrection.

 

[Euphemia]

I agree we do inherit the kingdom when we're born again, but scripture specifically states that the breath of life is removed upon death. How are we awake in heaven without the breath of life?

You are only talking about the death of the flesh and blood body. The spirit of the believer is not subject to death.

 

[ATP]

You are only talking about the death of the flesh and blood body. The spirit of the believer is not subject to death.

But 1 Cor 15:50-54 says we don't. It says we obtain it at the first resurrection.

 

[Euphemia]

But 1 Cor 15:50-54 says we don't. It says we obtain it at the first resurrection.

No. That passage talks about those who are alive at the resurrection, and they will suddenly change. The bodies of those who have died will arise from their graves, meet with their spirits and be changed.

 

[ATP]

No. That passage talks about those who are alive at the resurrection, and they will suddenly change. The bodies of those who have died will arise from their graves, meet with their spirits and be changed.

Uhh. Correct. It is about the first resurrection and becoming immortal.

1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

 

[CCW95A]

I agree we do inherit the kingdom when we're born again, but scripture specifically states that the breath of life is removed upon death. How are we awake in heaven without the breath of life?

That's because we are already in Heaven!!! Is this not where Jesus Christ is sitting right now?

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Not only is Jesus Christ living inside each and every believer while here on earth, but we also living inside Christ while he is sitting on his throne in Heaven!!
Why then are we not experiencing this in our life's today? That is because we do not believe it.

 

[Euphemia]

Uhh. Correct. It is about the first resurrection and becoming immortal.

1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

It is saying that the physical flesh bodies will take on immortality and incorruption. Our spirits already have it.

 

[ATP]

That's because we are already in Heaven!!! Is this not where Jesus Christi is sitting right now?

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Not only is Jesus Christ living inside each and every believer while here on earth, but we also living inside Christ while he is sitting on his throne in Heaven!!
Why then are we not experiencing this in our life's today? That is because we do not believe it.

Eph 2:6 is out of context. He is talking about heavenly realms in the Holy Spirit, having a relationship with God on this earth.

Eph 2:6 NIV And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

 

[Euphemia]

Eph 2:6 is out of context. He is talking about heavenly realms in the Holy Spirit, having a relationship with God on this earth.

Eph 2:6 NIV And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

That's where we are in spirit with Him right now.

 

[ATP]

It is saying that the physical flesh bodies will take on immortality and incorruption. Our spirits already have it.

No, our spirits do not already have it. Why? Because the breath of life is not in us when we die.

 

[CCW95A]

But 1 Cor 15:50-54 says we don't. It says we obtain it at the first resurrection.

Do you know why it is called " the resurrection of the dead"? (1 Cor 15:42)
The word "dead" means "corpse", which means "body". It is not the resurrection of our spirits, but our body!!