Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Steve Amato, May 23, 2015.
Grace IS free!
It is free, but it is not cheap.
It is unearned and undeserved, but it is not unconditional.
Free Grace people don't seem to understand that justification is not conditioned on works of the law to earn that justification, and so they think it is not conditioned on anything whatsoever. That is a serious error in doctrine. A damnable error at that:
"...contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. 4For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."
Jude 1:3-4 NASB
Salvation is conditioned on a faith in Christ that changes you into a born again person who is growing up into works of righteous love. The lack of growth in righteous love (aka, works) indicates you do not have the faith--the condition--for being saved.
45“You gave Me no kiss; but she, since the time I came in, has not ceased to kiss My feet. 46“You did not anoint My head with oil, but she anointed My feet with perfume. 47“For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little.”
Luke 7:45-46 NASB
Love for God/Christ/and his people is the expected and obligatory evidence that follows the person who has had their sins forgiven. The characteristic absence of that evidence indicates they do not have justification in Christ, which is the condition for salvation.
This is not 100 percent correct.
If what you say we're true then most would never be saved.
You grow in His ways after you are saved.
Some grow slow and some show little growth but this has Nothing what so ever with them being saved.
Again this us not 100 percent correct at all. We received salvation and receive justification through Christ because of what He did on the cross for us.
We learn to love as we grow in Christ.
The only condition to be saved is believing and asking.
1 John 2:15
Do Not Love This World
Do not love this world nor the things it offers you, for when you love the world, you do not have the love of the Father in you..... meaning the saved person does not understand how much the Father Loves them. And they don't have the wisdom to know how to resist sin.
1 John 2:11
But anyone who hates a fellow believer is still living and walking in darkness. Such a person does not know the way to go, having been blinded by the darkness.
...the person whom is still blinded by the enemy cannot see clearly to get out of their sin, and they are only held responsible for the light they have.... not the light that we have or think they should have, for they are just babies (even if they have been a believer for 40 yrs) and need someone to disciple them.
2Ti 2:24 — 2Ti 2:26
A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil’s trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.
7 “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged.
Mat 7:1 — Mat 7:2
"believing and asking"...those are the conditions for being justified, not for being saved in the Judgment.
If you think you're going to arrive at the Judgment with nothing but a so-called 'believing' and no works, then think again. You're in for a big, big surprise:
14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”
James 2:14,18 NASB
This doesn't mean a person is justified by the merit of works. That is literally impossible for fallen humans to achieve. What it means is justified people have works that prove the presence of the faith that justifies (see Luke 7:47 again). It's amazing how many Christians will vehemently argue with James and swear that the faith that does not produce works is still the faith that will save a person on the day of Judgment. I can hear the keyboards lighting up already, lol.
Most of us are familiar with the event when the rich young ruler came to Christ and asked how to enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus told him that he knew the commandments, but somehow the young man knew it wasn't enough. When he asked Jesus "What do I lack?" Jesus didn't tell him "Ask Me into your heart to save you." He said (in essence, if you will) leave everything and come follow Me." In Mark He actually tells him to "take up the cross and follow Me." The modern church is so afraid to declare Christ who is deity, God with us, the word become flesh, and declare that the gospel is the call to repentance, change of mind, to die to sin and to live to Christ...leave the old life behind and to follow Him. IF Christ IS God, then any form of the gospel that suggests He doesn't have to be TREATED that way is a false gospel.
Thank you for your reply and I look forward to future fellowship.
However I ask that you stay on topic with a quote so as to not make it say something else.
Just a friendly Reminder
Let's get the thread back on the O.P
1John 3:9 - What does it mean
Thank you and Merry Christmas
Growth is evidence of salvation. It's NO growth that has everything to do with a person being saved, or not.
The person who is not growing up into Christ and who is still characterized by the old life of unrighteousness is showing that they are not born again:
"anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."
1 John 3:10 NASB
Meanwhile, the person who is now characterized by the new life of righteousness is showing themselves to be born again:
"you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him."
1 John 2:29 NASB
It looks like this thread has just died.
John is not teaching sinless perfection in 1 John 3:9-10. He is speaking of "Habitual" practice of known sinful acts. The truly born again believer's action's will conform to the character of his true father who is either God or Satan.
John is telling us that a "mere confession" of faith in Christ is insufficient if not accompanied by the outward works which are attributed to being born again. That confirms the words of Jesus in Matt. 7:20........"'By their fruits you will know them'".
I agree with that too. Speaking of fruits, if we all were to admit I dont think any of us could say we have the Fruit of the Spirit to the degree that we have each of them in their fullest potential. Our flesh still wars with our spirit.
Our Wed. night prayer meeting was started off by our pastor reading from 1 Thessalonians 5:14-21 and he said that we all pray for those we love for many things, especially healing because there is so much sickness but he urged us to include in those prayers for those are saved for these things in the Text
14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.
16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil."
We should all be growing & maturing in Christ, but the 1 John 3:9 means not a Pattern of sin, but if we are all honest we all struggle with at least 1 or more of the above verses 'being patient with all' (I know that one is tough for many, many believers, 'pray without ceasing', who can say they never let the worries and cares & stresses of this life distract us from praying?, 'give thanks', when believers go through a mountain experience they naturally give thanks but many go into a shell when they go through a valley, 'abstain from every form of evil', some believers do things because they are not convinced or convicted it is evil, it may be because they are not hearing from the pulpit what is displeasing to the lord. I have met many a believer who had no conviction or understanding what 'unwholesome talk' is, so they avoid only some curse words but not others.
Well said brother. You will find, if you have not already that some teach that the sin nature is eradicated upon our salvation. However the Bible tells us that the new nature is at war with old nature as long as we live.
In Romans 5, Paul tells how he was conflicted with wanting to do good but doing bad instead.
And yes.....I also agree that one of the reasons that Christianity is in the condition it is in is the lack of heart felt, spirit filled preaching from pulpits all over this land.
Pastors, not all but a great number stopped trying to please God and instead they preached to please their congregation's. The idea is that if the people are happy and not angry with me for teaching the truth of God's Word, they will keep coming back for my "Positive Motivational Sermonettes" and I will keep getting a paycheck.
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