1John 3:9 - What does it mean?

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Steve Amato, May 23, 2015.

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  1. 1John 3:
    9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
    10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

    What does verse 9 means? Just for starters, the fact that verse 10 indicates that verse 9 is something visible, even measureable to the point of distinguishing children of God from children of the devil eliminates interpretations like this is referring to something merely internal to those born of God.

    Nor is it referring to perfect behavior, as 1John 2:1;1:8,10; not to mention Gal 5:17 all indicate those born of God will sin from time to time.

    What I find interesting about 1John is that in the Greek whenever John is referring to lifestyle he uses the present tense. And whenever John is referring to a snapshot event, or a behavior uncharacteristic of the person, he uses the aorist (which we don't have in English and so you lose something in the translation).

    In this case John is saying that sinning is uncharacteristic of those born of God, not denying that it doesn't occur uncharactertically from time to time. Those born of God don't live a lifestyle of sin. And this is a distinguishing mark of those born of God. Thus when Paul says, "Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor 6:9,10 it is not that salvation is contingent upon one's behavior, but rather that there simply doesn't exists any such person who lives a lifestyle of sin who has been born of God.
    RudyL33, KingJ, Juk and 2 others say Amen and like this.
  2. Amen!! :D When we grow in the ways of the Lord, we sin less and less. We're not bound to sin any longer, so it's just a matter of putting the flesh in its subservient position to that of the Spirit - the way it was before Adam sinned. Do this, don't do that, are things of the Law, but God says we're beyond that,

    Hebrews 6:1-2 (KJV)
    Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
    In other words, grow up and be an adult in Christ! Do the right thing and stop being spiritually childish. :D
    Fish Catcher Jim, Juk, Euphemia and 2 others say Amen and like this.
  3. Yes, it seems those born of God do what is right because it's the natural thing to do, in spite of having resistance from the flesh. And the more one matures in Christ, the less one is motivated by incentives and the more one simply does the right thing because it's simply the right thing to do.
    Fish Catcher Jim, Euphemia and Abdicate says Amen and like this.
  4. I agree with you, but this can be the hardest thing for a Christian. To say "so it's just a matter of" almost makes it sound simple. Even the Apostle Paul lamented about doing what he did not want to do, and not doing what he wanted to do. Battling the flesh can be a lifelong struggle for Christians, and especially hard for newer Christians when Satan steps up the temptation to lure you away. There have been many who have given up on God because they couldn't win that battle with their flesh. We have to prepare newer Christians for this battle, and teach them not to get discouraged over it. There is a perception among some that when you become a Christian you no longer sin, and that is far from the truth. You no longer live a life of sin, and has been pointed out here, there is a difference.
    KingJ likes this.
  5. Nothing trivial about what I said - at least I didn't mean to sound that way. Thanks for setting it straight :)
    JohnP likes this.
  6. I think that if it be taught....to remember that sin is not automatically stopped or taken away, but that as soon as we accept Jesus as our Lord and savior, His blood and the sacrifice that He made on the cross breaks the hold that sin has over our lives (like you said) we just have to know that so that we choose to walk in the victory that Jesus has already bought for us.

    I don't ever remember being taught that while growing up. So not until a few years ago did God show me that i was no longer bound by sin, but that i had to make the choice to walk in that victory. Once we know something or have knowledge....our faith and strength increases proverbs 24:5 & 10
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  7. Yes, I see that as being a problem. Churches will have alter calls, and tell the respondents that because they said the sinners prayer they are Christians now. Without follow-up to teach them what that means, they are left to think that their sins will go away and life will be trouble free. When that doesn't happen, they get discouraged and may turn away.
    Fish Catcher Jim, Abdicate and Cturtle says Amen and like this.
  8. #8 CCW95A, May 24, 2015
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
    When a man becomes "born again" Christ becomes their new life. "Do we not know that Jesus Christ is in us..."(2 Cor 13:5)
    "Because we are sons God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts crying abba Father" (Gal 4:6)
    This is the man that can never sin, or ever die, because he is God!! He is the "seed" (the Word of God) that remains in us.
    However, God did nothing with our "bodies", and God did nothing with our "souls". We are to offer up our bodies as a living sacrifice to God, and we are to save our souls by renewing our minds with the Word of God. Not until the mind has been renewed and our bodies offered to God, there will many problems with the flesh.

    Gal_5:17.. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

    What we "want" theis to have faith, and to be free from the lusts of the flesh that antagonize us at every turn. Not until the"mind", and "heart" are in agreement will that ever happen. The un- renewed mind will not go freely on it's own it must be told what to believe from man's heart, which is Jesus Christ!
    Without this agreement there will be no faith to have victory in our lives, and in having our prayers answered.

    1Jn 3:20.. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
    1Jn 3:21.. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
    1Jn 3:22.. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

    The heart of man will never believe a lie as Christ can never be deceived in us, but the un-renewed mind is easily deceived. Once the heart and mind are in agreement only then will we have "confidence" toward God, and only then will we get all our prayers answered.
    Walking in the Spirit can not be done without the renewed mind in place, or there will be doubt.

    Gal 5:16.. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

    Without the mind being renewed we will be "double minded", and will receive nothing from the Lord.
    Waggles, Abdicate and Cturtle says Amen and like this.
  9. Well yea I mean how can you hang out with Jesus and then want to keep up with the old life?
    I mean you are spending time with the Creator and Thee Only Real God our Heavenly Father who loves us more then we can even grasp a hold of. Just being in His presence makes sin unappealing to say the very least. It is those who do not SEEK God and His RIGHTEOUSNESS that can simply keep on living after the lust of the flesh.

    Cturtle and Euphemia say Amen and like this.
  10. Hence this verse:

    Luke 6:46 (KJV)
    And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? ​
    Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. ​

    Kinda kills the whole easy believisms out there... Even those that are indeed Christians in the last days, Jesus says:

    Revelation 3:15-18 (KJV)
    I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. ​

    It shows their worldly mindset of those that would rather wait for the new Star Wars movie than go to heaven in the rapture before its release!
  11. Maybe this is a good example of one needing the insight of the Holy Spirit to understand the word of God:

  12. Were you just showing me something with this reply or was it really directed to the post you quoted of mine to you? In the post you quoted here I was agreeing with what you had said and making the point that if you hang out with God then God willo rub off on you kind of like hanging around faith people, eventually faith will rub off onto you.
    Cturtle likes this.
  13. Jim,

    Just adding onto your comment... if we're hanging out with God, we'll change. Those that don't will be those to whom Jesus says "I never knew you." Very sad days coming.
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.

  14. Abdicate that was to easy and that is why I missed it. lol
    I do so agree with you there. Every one seems to be all caught up in this generation or the generation in the last days and so forth and yet many seem to miss the other side to this end times.

    If we are truly the generation in the last days then it is through us that people will see some of Gods greatest works of love and healing and setting the captive free. It will be us who are used to bring forth the biggest harvest seen in a very long time. I remember reading some where about how God will do mightier and bigger things through us in the last days then He has ever before.

    Now I also read and heard how the body of Christ will be as two parts. Those who live according to His word and have nothing better to do then be where He is, ( answered His call)
    and those who are to busy with every day life and caught up with their plans even ministry plans or rather what they feel they need to do to. Those who fail to answer the call will struggle just like the rest of the world trying to make ends meet. They are still saved and all but those who are not busy with this life hereon earth and those who actually live by faith and do what His word says will show up and be used.

    It is NOT who is qualified to do these things of God but who is "willing to be willing"and shows up for God has to use who shows up but He can domore with little then we can with a lot. Now in all of this we must grasp that our enemy the devil is getting squeezed in this day and age for as this things winds down you have the end approaching on one side and time or the date (the now) approaching from the other direction and the devil is caught in the middle. Time is short and it is the first time that the devil has the Body of Christ and Israel hitting him at the same time. Time is short so our enemy is going to also be working hard to deceive people even the body of Christ where he can and hit them with everything he can.

    People seem to be waiting for the day of this great deception to take place in the last days. Open up your eyes and look around for it is already here and building or another words slowly day by day our enemy has been working things for his purpose as well and the best deception comes a little at a time so as to not notice it. You can pray in schools but not with the name of Jesus. Parents have little rights as far as disciplining their children from fear of being jailed.

    Has the body of Christ fighting over who is real and who is false and using the written word of God as given a sheriffs badge to round up and hang all out laws BUT who is it that is really attacking these ministries I ask YOU ? The ministries that do the attacking see very little fruits and of God moving through them but those who are getting attacked God has been and still is working big in and through them. Ministries that teach Christians how much God really loves them and teaches who they really are in Christ and what authority they have over the devil get hammered and the enemy uses Christians to do his bidding as well as the media and so forth.

    Look at all the different beliefs in the forums and they all think they are right. As the body of Christ has slept and paid the devil no mind and bought into his lies the devil our enemy has been busy at work in the shadows as so not to see him or believe he is even there working against the church.......Think about these things as well.

    God Bless you Abdicate
    Cturtle likes this.
  15. That's why just before the rapture I believe Joel's prophecy will take place. God will pour out His Spirit on ALL flesh so no one can say "I didn't know" before that great and terrible day of the Lord. They will have to make a choice right then and there. They blow Him off, then He'll leave them be. A lot of things are going to starting happening that's never happened before and include prophecies no one ever knew were even prophecies like Jer 25:31 which is happening right now! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/t...se-heard-globe-nearly-DECADE-explanation.html
    Jahida and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  16. Amen and a lot of the body of Christ is fighting over if prophets are real today and does God heal and are tongues really Godly in this day and so forth. Talk about the blind trying to lead the lost....
    Cturtle, Euphemia and Abdicate says Amen and like this.
  17. Agreed! The word that comes to my mind is "known sin". The believer should never practice or commit or stay in a sin the he knows is against God's will and purpose in his life.
  18. I understand that the only real sin is unbelief. If we are a believer we do not transgress intentionally but when we do - the attonement applies.
  19. One of the obvious problems with that interpretation of 1John 3:9 is that very next verse would seem to contradict it. You're proposing that 1John 3:9 isn't referring to the behavior of those born of God by simply their belief. Yet verse 10 indicates that vese 9 is referring to a visible, measurable behavior whereby we can distinguish children of God from childern of the devil.

    "This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother."
    KingJ likes this.
  20. I don't see a problem with it but you may be further along.
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