What faith is and what it is not.

Hi @KingJ,

Yes, I agree, KingJ. He also believed that God would raise His Son from the dead, which he did indeed in a figure - for the promises God had made to him, necessitated his Son to live.

'By faith Abraham,
when he was tried,
offered up Isaac:
and he that had received the promises
offered up his only begotten son,
Of whom it was said,
That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Accounting that God was able to raise him up,
even from the dead;
from whence also he received him in a figure.'

(Heb 11:17-19)

However living in a tent, was indeed part of the faith he had in God's Word. He lived within the land promised to him by God, as a stranger, a sojourner, in a tent, having no continuing city, (Heb. 13:14) for he looked for a city, whose builder and maker was God (Heb.11:10).

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Absolutely true. It is also true that Abraham never realized all that God gave him.

Heb. 11:13........
"These all died in faith not having received the promises but having seen them afar off and were persuaded of them and embraced them...........".

It is in the 1000 year rule of Christ that the promise will be realized and he will actually BE IN the Promised Land given to him.
 
Faith could be defined as the manifestation of preparation for events which are imminent or likely to occur.
One prepares food having faith that someone will be eating the food. Otherwise you would not prepare the food.
We prepare to meet Christ for we believe He is coming.
 
Hi @KingJ,

Yes, I agree, KingJ. He also believed that God would raise His Son from the dead, which he did indeed in a figure - for the promises God had made to him, necessitated his Son to live.

'By faith Abraham,
when he was tried,
offered up Isaac:
and he that had received the promises
offered up his only begotten son,
Of whom it was said,
That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Accounting that God was able to raise him up,
even from the dead;
from whence also he received him in a figure.'

(Heb 11:17-19)

However living in a tent, was indeed part of the faith he had in God's Word. He lived within the land promised to him by God, as a stranger, a sojourner, in a tent, having no continuing city, (Heb. 13:14) for he looked for a city, whose builder and maker was God (Heb.11:10).

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
What stands out when we read the chapters on Abraham in Genesis is that when it came to sacrificing his son, he didn't hesitate. God said 'Abraham do this' and Abraham did it. He had complete trust that God was talking to him and he had complete trust in God. God and Abraham had a long working relationship of trust already established, this test was simply a final evidence / proof for the history books of this impeccable faith that Abraham had in God imho.

The most interesting verses on the interaction between Abraham and God for me are when Sodom was going to be destroyed. Look at how Abraham is poking God to see how good He is.

Gen 18:23-29
23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? 25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? 26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. 27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: 28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. 29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. 30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. 31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. 32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
 
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Hi @KingJ,

Yes, I agree, KingJ. He also believed that God would raise His Son from the dead, which he did indeed in a figure - for the promises God had made to him, necessitated his Son to live.

'By faith Abraham,
when he was tried,
offered up Isaac:
and he that had received the promises
offered up his only begotten son,
Of whom it was said,
That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Accounting that God was able to raise him up,
even from the dead;
from whence also he received him in a figure.'

(Heb 11:17-19)

When scripture says ''Accounting that God was able to raise him up,even from the dead'' it is NOT saying Abraham believed God could do magic. It is saying Abraham believed God would do something GOOD like raise his son from the dead. I mean for crying out aloud Abraham just saw God destroy Sodom and Gommorrah....

Believing / having faith for magic = righteoussness? If thats the case those who follow the anti-christ are righteous? Anyone who teaches that '''faith'' alone is anything righteous, needs to answer that question.
 
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Thank you, @KingJ,

Regarding faith/righteousness:-

'For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God,
and it was counted unto him
for righteousness. '

(Rom.4:3, Gal.3:6 )

'And the scripture was fulfilled which saith,
"Abraham believed God,
and it was imputed unto him for righteousness:
and he was called the Friend of God."'

(James.2:23)

* See Genesis 15:6, and 22:10,15-18
'After these things
the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying,

"Fear not, Abram:
I am thy shield,
and thy exceeding great reward."

And Abram said,
'Lord GOD,
what wilt thou give me,
seeing I go childless,
and the steward of my house
is this Eliezer of Damascus?'

And Abram said,
"Behold, to me Thou hast given no seed:
and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir."
And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying,
"This shall not be thine heir;
but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir."
And He brought him forth abroad, and said,

"Look now toward heaven,
and tell the stars,
if thou be able to number them:"

and He said unto him,
"So shall thy seed be."
And he believed in the LORD;
and He counted it to him for righteousness.'

(Gen 15:1-6)

'And Abraham stretched forth his hand,
and took the knife to slay his son. ...'
(22:10)

'And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham
out of heaven the second time,
And said,
"By myself have I sworn," saith the LORD,

"for because thou hast done this thing,
and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
That in blessing I will bless thee,
and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven,
and as the sand which is upon the sea shore;
and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
because thou hast obeyed my voice."

(22:15-18)

Abraham believed God, and he evidenced His faith by obedience to His known will.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
What stands out when we read the chapters on Abraham in Genesis is that when it came to sacrificing his son, he didn't hesitate. God said 'Abraham do this' and Abraham did it. He had complete trust that God was talking to him and he had complete trust in God. God and Abraham had a long working relationship of trust already established, this test was simply a final evidence / proof for the history books of this impeccable faith that Abraham had in God imho.

The most interesting verses on the interaction between Abraham and God for me are when Sodom was going to be destroyed. Look at how Abraham is poking God to see how good He is.

Gen 18:23-29
23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? 25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? 26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. 27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: 28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. 29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. 30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. 31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. 32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Abraham believed that God would resurrect his son.
 
Abraham believed that God would resurrect his son.
I don't disagree. We just need to understand the world of difference between Abraham believing God would VS God could.

He knew / had 100% faith in the fact that God 'could' do anything. But he has to believe God is good to believe God ''would''. Ie he needed faith in God.

When we teach Abraham had '''faith''' and that was accredited to him as righteousness we are missing the boat 100%. That is the only point I am trying to clarify.
 
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I don't disagree. We just need to understand the WORLD of difference between Abraham believing God would VS God could.

He knew / had 1000% faith in the fact that God 'could' do anything. But he has to believe God is good to believe God ''would''. Ie he needed faith in God.

When we teach Abraham had '''faith''' and that was accredited to him as righteousness we are missing the boat 100%. That is the only point I am trying to clarify.

Sorry to be dense, KingJ,

Am I right in thinking that you are saying, that 'faith' of itself won't save anyone, but that 'faith in Christ' is what is needed. Faith, not only that He can save, but that He will save to the uttermost all those who come unto God by Him. (Heb.7:25)

In Christ Jesus
Chris





 
Sorry to be dense, KingJ,

Am I right in thinking that you are saying, that 'faith' of itself won't save anyone, but that 'faith in Christ' is what is needed. Faith, not only that He can save, but that He will save to the uttermost all those who come unto God by Him. (Heb.7:25)

In Christ Jesus
Chris




Thats what I understood !
 
Sorry to be dense, KingJ,

Am I right in thinking that you are saying, that 'faith' of itself won't save anyone, but that 'faith in Christ' is what is needed. Faith, not only that He can save, but that He will save to the uttermost all those who come unto God by Him. (Heb.7:25)

In Christ Jesus
Chris




Haha you not dense. Yes, agree with exactly what you said.
 
Sorry to be dense, KingJ,

Am I right in thinking that you are saying, that 'faith' of itself won't save anyone, but that 'faith in Christ' is what is needed. Faith, not only that He can save, but that He will save to the uttermost all those who come unto God by Him. (Heb.7:25)

In Christ Jesus
Chris




Haha you not dense. Yes, agree with exactly what you said.
 
What faith exactly does this require?

I hate all blurriness with 'faith'. Please clarify exactly what faith you are referring to. Faith that God is? Faith that God is good? Faith that Jesus is God? Faith that we are washed clean and can enter the holy place? Faith in faith? Then, how does this 'faith' mature?



We must wash ourselves or we are washed by Jesus? Our faith washes us?

You need to try talk plainly on faith. Talking so mystically simply adds to the blur and confusion. It sounds like you are saying we need faith to enter God's presence and that that faith grows. We have entered into eternal life. We don't need to have faith to enter God's presence like a stranger walking on thin ice. Hence the ''boldly'' enter. I wouldn't say it takes any faith for a Christian to enter God's presence. The neighbors kid (Jew and gentile) needs faith and to grow in faith in my Father. The adopted kid has faith.

King stated to gerald...........
"You need to try talk plainly on faith. Talking so mystically simply adds to the blur and confusion. It sounds like you are saying we need faith to enter God's presence and that that faith grows."

AMEN!
 
Faith could be defined as the manifestation of preparation for events which are imminent or likely to occur.
One prepares food having faith that someone will be eating the food. Otherwise you would not prepare the food.
We prepare to meet Christ for we believe He is coming.

if I could give another possible example?
I once lived near a cross roads which was at the top of a hill . There was a bus stop just over the brow of it and the buses came from the left and turned left to go to it .
When you was further down the hill and saw people further up the hill running towards the bus stop you knew the bus was coming .They could see it you could not ,But they bore witness to what they saw by the very fact of them running towards the bus stop.
Which of course made me start running as well. For by them I knew the bus was soon to arrive .

in Christ
gerald
 
King stated to gerald...........
"You need to try talk plainly on faith. Talking so mystically simply adds to the blur and confusion. It sounds like you are saying we need faith to enter God's presence and that that faith grows."

AMEN!

"Little children ye know the father and your sins are forgiven you"
Little children have faith . "Ye fathers ye know Him who is from the beginning " clearly also have faith.
So what then of "ye young men the Word of God dwelleth in you richly and ye have overcome the wicked one" They too have faith .
"By faith we understand the worlds were framed by the Word of God ,so that the things that are seen are made by that which do not appear"
Its the same faith . But a small childs faith is not the same as in measure as a young mans who by faith is able to do far more and or ye fathers. Who clearly must understand by faith that the Words were framed b y the Word of God .

I suggest that forgetting all other definitions as to what faith "is",that people actually go to the Biblical definition as to what faith "is"
For according to what faith "IS" all men have faith and use it .
But not all men put their faith in God and no one puts their faith in God till they actually understand the Word of God.
"NOW faith IS .......................
I think your confusion stems more from the fixed idea that no one has any faith at all and only those who have faith in God have any faith .
This I have attempted to show or prove is not so .
That according to what faith is or the nature of faith . God has given to all men a measure of it to profit with. Whether in time or in God .

in Christ
gerald
 
"Little children ye know the father and your sins are forgiven you"
Little children have faith . "Ye fathers ye know Him who is from the beginning " clearly also have faith.
So what then of "ye young men the Word of God dwelleth in you richly and ye have overcome the wicked one" They too have faith .
"By faith we understand the worlds were framed by the Word of God ,so that the things that are seen are made by that which do not appear"
Its the same faith . But a small childs faith is not the same as in measure as a young mans who by faith is able to do far more and or ye fathers. Who clearly must understand by faith that the Words were framed b y the Word of God .

I suggest that forgetting all other definitions as to what faith "is",that people actually go to the Biblical definition as to what faith "is"
For according to what faith "IS" all men have faith and use it .
But not all men put their faith in God and no one puts their faith in God till they actually understand the Word of God.
"NOW faith IS .......................
I think your confusion stems more from the fixed idea that no one has any faith at all and only those who have faith in God have any faith .
This I have attempted to show or prove is not so .
That according to what faith is or the nature of faith . God has given to all men a measure of it to profit with. Whether in time or in God .

in Christ
gerald

Speaking only for myself........My confusion comes from the way you pose your comments Gerald.
They are hard to comprehend and leave me wondering what it is that you are wanting to say.
 
Speaking only for myself........My confusion comes from the way you pose your comments Gerald.
They are hard to comprehend and leave me wondering what it is that you are wanting to say.

I have said it plain enough . The confusion comes from people having a wrong idea of what faith "IS."
ALL men have this faith , For God has given" to every man a measure of faith......."
But although all men have faith . Not all men put or have their faith in God.

I have also proved that this is so . and even your self uses this faith in all sorts of ways every day of your life .
That men do not therefore need to find faith or get faith to have faith IN God .
They need to understand the Word of God for that is how faith IN God comes.
But it operates and works in the same way as faith always does in the normal course of life .

in Christ
gerald
 
I have said it plain enough . The confusion comes from people having a wrong idea of what faith "IS."
ALL men have this faith , For God has given" to every man a measure of faith......."
But although all men have faith . Not all men put or have their faith in God.

I have also proved that this is so . and even your self uses this faith in all sorts of ways every day of your life .
That men do not therefore need to find faith or get faith to have faith IN God .
They need to understand the Word of God for that is how faith IN God comes.
But it operates and works in the same way as faith always does in the normal course of life .

in Christ
gerald
How true, how true and yet men must build up their faith in Gods word in order to stand and see the victories. One (size) faith does not fit all and this means you must build up your faith and make it strong - in many different area's.
God Bless
Jim
 
God has instilled in every man a measure of faith, but it is the one who puts their faith and trust in Jesus Christ who has a living faith...not the dead faith outside of trust in Him.
 
How true, how true and yet men must build up their faith in Gods word in order to stand and see the victories. One (size) faith does not fit all and this means you must build up your faith and make it strong - in many different area's.
God Bless
Jim

Hi Jim,

In the prayer of Ephesians chapter three, Paul first prays, that God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, would 'grant' (both them and us) , Praise God! - 'according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man; that Christ may dwell in our hearts - by faith, ....... '

That 'strengthening', that 'might' being the pre-requisite. How wonderful this prayer is, and how even more wonderful that all that is requested, can be ours, too, by His grace.

The prayers of Ephesians, and Colossians are for us to pray for each other, I believe, for all who comprise His Body, who are being built up as a temple for God to dwell in: as His inheritance in the Holy Place, in resurrection glory. How wonderful this is. How high! Like David, of old, I am in awe of this truth, and I too would say:-

'Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
it is high, I cannot attain unto it.'

(Psa 139:6)

* Yet He is able to give the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the acknowledgement of Him, and bring all these 'wonders' and make them ours, by His Spirit.

Praise His Holy Name!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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