Jesus was separated from the Father..........
Poll on hell
- Thread starter KingJ
- Start date
- Status
Jesus was separated from the Father..........
Well I agree that it is a hermeneutics fail to isolate scripture as I did. But we have to accept that many do and hold fast to their beliefs because they don't yet grasp the fuller picture. I don't believe all of us are as blessed as others or smart enough to fully grasp this subject. We need to be careful not to jump too harshly on anyones beliefs of the vastly unknown eternal future of God's enemies.
One thing I do know is that when looking into the unknown...it is always a safe bet to believe / expect the best of our God. He is good yesterday, today and tomorrow. There is no darkness in Him at all.
Last edited:
I wish that was true. It is really depressing to think of all our unsaved family being in torment for all eternity. I think every Christian should desire that. Scripture is crystal clear that God desires all to be with Him.
But then scripture is also clear that God always honors our free will.
So the only issue you need to debunk to justify universal salvation is '''do people really hate God / do you see the devil ever deciding to do what is good''? I believe Jesus addressed this question for us clearly in 1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.
What Jesus said here is very interesting. He made the extra effort to include ''from the beginning''. He could have just said the 'devil sins' / you sinning like the devil did / does. I believe Jesus wanted us to understand that God does not make mistakes. All hope of him changing / not sinning was gone.
?
/
Guest
Staff Notice
This thread is being watched...remember the rules when posting.
http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/forum-rules.29546/
This thread is being watched...remember the rules when posting.
http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/forum-rules.29546/
Very well said, King J.
A person is reminded of the story of 3 (?) blind men examining an elephant and each one is examining a different part of the animal with a corresponding different description. Personally, I like to think of the Bible as a huge jigsaw puzzle that no one has totally completed -- but some more than others.
-- brixken7
A person is reminded of the story of 3 (?) blind men examining an elephant and each one is examining a different part of the animal with a corresponding different description. Personally, I like to think of the Bible as a huge jigsaw puzzle that no one has totally completed -- but some more than others.
-- brixken7
Yes agreed. What should comfort us all is the fact that God removes our blinkers in heaven 1 Cor 13:12. This correctly translates into God having nothing to hide. Whatever is happening to His enemies will not upset us. God does not hide evil / brainwash / remove memories... He does the complete opposite according to that verse / all of scripture.
Matthew 25:46 (NKJV)
46And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever
Mark 9:47-48 (NKJV)
47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— 48where
‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
Luke 16:27-28 (NKJV)
27“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
Reads clear to me.
46And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever
Mark 9:47-48 (NKJV)
47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— 48where
‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
Luke 16:27-28 (NKJV)
27“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
Reads clear to me.
Brother Abdicate Hello,
Perhaps the Lord might lead you to start a few good threads where we can feast on His written word. If you do, how about some guid lines so we can honestly feast and be fed.
Just a thought...
Blessings and Love in Christ
Jim
Neighbor Jim,
I have given your above views much thought and no matter how many times I add 2+2 here I keep coming up with a form of docetism heresy. You really need to reign in your imagination.
You really do need to subordinate your thinking to God's word.
I am urging you out of concern for you and for no other consideration.
Psa 139:7. Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8. If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
Psa 139:9. If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
Psa 139:10. even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.
Psa 139:11. If I say, "Surely the darkness shall cover me, and the light about me be night,"
Psa 139:12. even the darkness is not dark to you; the night is bright as the day, for darkness is as light with you.
Last edited:
Calvin I will ask you to refrane from speaking docetism heresy about aanything I write as it does line up with the written word of God especially when you have shown nothing to back your claim. Now it does not matter what you believe is truth for it is your choice but honestly brother you might want to seek wisdom on this before claiming such things....
Here is scripture to back what i said.
We will start with this scene before the cross.
John 12:27 KJV
Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour; BUT for this cause I came unto this hour.
Now Calvin what had Jesus soul so trobled ? The pain and agony of the cross? No brother but what He knew was to come in order to fulfill the purpose of paying our debt in HELL. He would have to ber separated from the Father for the Holy Ghost or Spirit could not ever take on sin or die in order to go into hell and defeat death and satan.
Now KEEP READING and dont run off because you think I am lying.
Lets see what John 19:30 says.....
30... When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, HE said ( this is Jesus speaking here )
IT IS FINISHED and He bowed His head AND GAVE UP THE GHOST.
Ghost meaning Holy ghost or Holy Spirit and not the boogie man.
You can find all this in Matthew and Luke and so forth. EVEN IN THE OT brother.
Now then is it the part about Jesus going into hell that has you all up in arms ?
Do you need me to write this all out for you too ? I will that is no problem.
Calvin Jesus had to take on ALL SIN which means PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE SIN.
No man can ever sin as much as Jesus took apon Himself. This is why it is written how Jesus did not even look like a human man after that point. Her was all deformed.
Remember the centurion that spoke...this truly was the son of God...now why do you think he said this ? Because this man had seen so many crucifixions in his time as a centurion and HAD NEVER SEEN ANY MAN LOOK LIKE JESUS DID.
Like I said brother if you want me to bring more scriptures and expalin all about Jesus going into hell and all He did there then just ask I will will do it gladly.
I will even go as far as to say this. If I am not telling you the truth then I will Have Brother Abdicate ban me. Is this fare for you ?
Blessings and Love in Christ
Jim
?
/
Guest
Staff Notice
This isn't a debate forum, please keep communications civil. There is strong opinion on this thread so be careful in what you post; as ever, remember the forum rules.
http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/forum-rules.29546/
Should any debates spawn or uncivil dialogue follow this message, I shall not hesitate to close it in breach of rule 2.1.
This isn't a debate forum, please keep communications civil. There is strong opinion on this thread so be careful in what you post; as ever, remember the forum rules.
http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/forum-rules.29546/
Should any debates spawn or uncivil dialogue follow this message, I shall not hesitate to close it in breach of rule 2.1.
No one wants to see you banned neighbor.
This one thing I would like to draw to your attention neighbor,
The Esv reads : Joh 19:30. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, "It is finished," and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
Please note the use of lower case 's' in 'spirit'.
Now since you used the word 'ghost', let me draw your attention to the Kjv's rendering of the same verse: Joh 19:30. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
May I draw your attention to the word 'ghost'? notice that the translators have used a lower case 'g' This in both cases is because the translators realized that the spirit being spoken of was not the Holy Spirit.
You can test the verity of my observations easily enough by doing a simple search viz. Joh 14:26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.Kjv
Please note the use of capitals for Holy Ghost, or again Joh 14:26. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Esv and once again the use of capitals when speaking of the Holy Spirit.
It is clear enough that when the Holy Spirit is mentioned capitals are used, but when the spirit of a man is in mind, lower case is used. This is used as a means of ensuring that there is no confusion, no disrespect for Deity.
I hope this will help you in your studies.
I feel its so easy for some not to think too hard about this, if they're already saved and secured a spot in heaven.
I am relieved that no one has selected Universalism...yet.
The one who holds to Universalism hasn't voted, obviously. (See post #191)
Ah, fascinating.
- Status