bratface75

Very good question.
First let me say Hello, as I am new here as well. I came across this thread and my heart just sinks with a reminder of all the feelings and emotions I have to deal with on a daily basis from my divorce.

I do not believe that this is an acceptable reason for divorce. However, we need to recognize that if one spouse is being neglected, God's word tells us due to a lack of self control we can allow satan to entice sinfully in that department. The act of adultry has the ability to break the covenent.

We have to make sure that our own heart is right. Meaning that any frustration, bitterness, anger-- that has evolved from being let down in whichever department of the marriage relationship was failed needs to be dealt with between us and God first.

We cannot look upon our spouse to fulfill our needs 100%. They are human.

We have to communicate exactly how we feel, but in a tactful way. If we are not honest with our feelings and deliver it in love, there will be resistance and offense taken.

If a husband isn't receiving the sexual attention that he so desires, then he should be taking this need before God, not demanding it from his wife. We have to becareful that the sexual appetite is not taking over the other spouses ability to perform as well.

One scripture that I hold on tightly to, is 1 Corinthains 7:5- Do not withhold yourselves from each other unless you agree to do so just for a set time, in order to devote yourselves to prayer. Then you should come together again so that Satan does not tempt you through your lack of self-control.

God warns us right here that as a married couple not having sex could lead to adultry or unGodly acts of sexual sin. It's very clear. Unless there is a specific reason --yet only for a set time only to wait. (I personally believe this means a form of fasting or taking that time for God).



When I met my ex husband, neither one of us were Christian. He was a pastor's kid, but was running full force from God. I was baptised Lutheren and went to a Catholic church every couple years. It wasn't until 2 years into our relationship that we both accepted Christ and changed our lives around. When we were married, his dad--who was ordained to marry-- we were in the front room of our living room, was a 10 minute thing, and wham bam thank you ma'am it's a done deal. (LOL)

I believe 100% that when two people marry, christian or not, huge religeous ceremony or small justice of the peace civil marriage both mean the same thing to God. They both and all inbetween are lead to the one covenent God created for a man and woman. If you want to put it that way, it would be under the "tradition of marriage". The church has to recognize a couple being married if there is a marriage lisence. ---(am I understanding your question right?!)

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Romans 5:19

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A woman should be so lost in God that man has to seek Him to find her....

bratface75

This is a very good topic to talk about because it is a reality.

I, too, am divorced after a 10 year marriage, in which the last 4 years of it was a struggle.
When I met my husband, neither of us were Christians. We both were into partying and drugs. 2 years later we both accepted Christ. Our lives were flipped upside down inside out and it felt so wonderful to be free from our lifestyle before!! My ex was self employed after a few years into our marriage, and that is when it began to fall apart.
He got caught up in drugs and it totally distroyed all he had. Over 3 years counselling at our church, praying numerous times of the day, and spinning my wheels in the mud trying to be a forgiving --every single time-- and loving wife everytime he's come running home, it finally broke.

I couldn't understand why this would happen when I kept faithful, forgiving, and willing to work things out, that it ended up in divorce later. I found out AFTER the divorce was final that he had been sleeping around for 3 years, selling drugs and had his own apartment 90 miles from home with a stripper. At that point, my confusion was no more.
I was then released from the torture of my own mind, and later on I met my now hubby.
My ex-is currently serving multiple jail terms due to his sin.

I have two children from my previous marriage, and it has been a very big struggle for them. Those links to this counselling program is very helpful. There are TONS of area's around here that provide it, and I am calling Monday to set it up. I know it's been 4 years since the divorce, but even now there are still struggles that can be addressed.

__________________
Romans 5:19

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A woman should be so lost in God that man has to seek Him to find her....

BreathOfGod

I'll tell you what I believe about your situation and what I read in the Bible about it.... but you probably don't want to hear any of it. I'll try and break down my answer to address the various questions/ points that you bring up....

1) I do not believe that a lack of sexual interaction is a form of unfaithfulness. A lack of sexual interaction can occur for various reasons-- biological, emotional, psychological, etc. Even if the cause is a spouse who is withholding sex out of malice, I believe that the spouse is sinning but still not unfaithful. If one spouse is withholding sex it usually stems from other problems in the marriage-- in other words, the issue is not sex, it is something else. That is not unfaithfulness nor infidelity. The lack of sex is just the symptom of a different problem.

2) Your union in marriage was legit. It doesn't mater who performed the ceremony (civil vs. traditional church), and it doesn't matter if one spouse is a non-believer. Two people entered into a covenant together and promised themselves into the unity of marriage. Neither of you was forced into marriage. It was a choice that two of you made. You joined flesh as one and lived in a marital relationship for many years. The Bible never says that if one partner is not a believer than the marriage is null under God's eyes. Nor does the Bible say that if the ceremony was performed in a civil manner rather than using God's name, then it is null. The fact is that the two of you are/ were married and it is a legitimate marriage under God.

What the Bible does say about a believer and non-believer union is that if the non-believer wants out of the marriage then the believer should let them go, but if the non-believer is willing to stay then the believer should stay. Read 1 Corinthians 7: 10-16.

Many years ago you committed yourself in marriage to another person. Even if you were the biggest atheist around, the marriage would still be valid in God's eyes.

3) You are married, and I will tell you that you most likely did not hear God tell you that there is someone else who will come into your life. What you heard is your own desire speaking. The Bible is also clear about re-marriage following a divorce. Look again at 1 Corinthians 7: 10-11..... if one spouse is a non-believer (and the other a believer) and the two separate (or divorce) then they should not remarry or else they should be reconciled back together. Look over at Matthew 19, particularly verse 9.... if a man (or woman) divorces for any reason other than marital unfaithfulness then they are not permitted to remarry or else it is adultery.

Which is why you are trying to justify the lack of sex in your relationship as unfaithfulness, right?

Look also at Matthew 5:31-32...again, if it is for any reason other than marital unfaithfulness then remarriage would be adultery.

This is why I do not believe that God is telling you that he has someone else out there for you. I don't believe that God would contradict himself or his word. God is not going to tell someone who is married that there is someone else in store for them. (And normally I am not so blunt nor bold as to flat out tell someone that it isn't God they are hearing.)

Again, the lack of sex in a marital relationship is not unfaithfulness... it is a symptom of some other problem. Unless it is specifically due to the other party's infidelity, then it is not unfaithfulness. And infidelity can be quite broad..... Infidelity is not just limited to sexual relations with another.

I believe that you know the truth, and you have read the Bible, and you are just looking for loopholes. You said yourself that you do not want prayer for restoration. You are as the Bible describes.... one who has hardened his heart. That is why God has made some provisions for divorce-- because man has hardened his heart (and woman). Malachi 2:15-16 God says that he hates divorce. Matthew 9:8... God permitted divorce because Man had hardened his heart.

Divorce is something that no one should ever have to go through. I am sorry that you are having problems in your marriage, and have been having problems for a long time. I am sorry that you are hurting and angry. I am sorry that you feel that you can no longer be in the marriage. It sounds as though in your heart you have already divorced from your spouse and now you are seeking support and justification for it. How does your spouse feel about it all? Does your spouse want reconciliation?

jesusworshipper

Thank you for your insights.
nothing i have not heard before, trust me on that. my spouse yes she made all the right noises about wanting to get back with me, but when push came to shove, and she was shown by a third unbiased party, areas of her life that she needed to address the result was absolutely zilch.
she changed nothing. so again i say she made the right noises.
as for your use of scripture to tell me that God hates divorce, do you know that He has called Himself a divorcee?
check out the minor prophets for the way He describes Israel as an unfaithful bride who seperated herself from Him, who divorced Him.
We have in the west been affected by what I would call a victorian mentality toward marriage sex and things of that nature.
tank you for making my point about infidelity for me.
i was neither treated as a husband nor a man during most of our marriage, even tho we were both claiming to be committed Christians. i was ignored for her studies. my needs were never considered. as to being angry, no sorry that no longer resides here. i am no longer angry about it. i do not allow others to dictate my self worth, nor my emotional state. i know who i am in Jesus, and i am learning more and more who He is in the Father, and i get no joy out of the fact we are separated except to say that my child is no longer caught in the middle of what was a battle that made gallipolli look like a sunday school picnic.
i would also like to question the legalistic viewpoint that comes out of statements like God does not allow.....
have a look at the israelites that came back to the promised land, i think off hand it is in ezra, but i could well be wrong. God asked them to put aside (read divorce) their foreign wives.
i do not think there is a contradiction in what God says. I think there is a problem with our thinking and the control element of legalism that pervades our churches.
No i am not trying to justify my stand i am looking for something other than the pat "church" answers. the "church" answers are not always what God had in mind, i believe that some of our "knowledge" about what is written in the bible is and has been corrupted by man's continous desire to live under law.
we live in grace, and grace and love cover multitudes of sin. when two people co-habit a house. where there is no love, where there is no desire for the others wellbeing, not saying that there is /was any desire for their ill health, but really just uncaring existed, which by the way is the opposite of love ( hatred is not). is there or could there aver be said to have been a marriage? yes there was a ceremony, and yes obviously there was copulation ( we do have a child) but love? i cannot say honestly that there was either from me or to me. i think it was more a desperate attempt at not being alone for the rest of our lives, you know the last wall flower of the year type of thing.
i do not mean to belittle my spouse by saying these things, just paint the picture of reality.
Jesus was never placed in the center of what we "had". He was invited, at least by me, but He never entered.
please do not give me the preferred scriptures that people use when they have chosen to make up their mind about a difficult subject and in order to avoid thinking and considering they just trot out the same old stuff. no slight upon you for having responded is intended.
I made a mistake, and one that i have regretted fr a long time, apart from the life of my child. does a person have to live with their mistakes all their life or do we allow them to correct themselves and move on with their life?
i know you are probably going to say that i am fishing for agreement, but you are wrong i am looking for intelligent thought out answers that do come straight out of the politically correct church tradition.
bless you heaps and thank you

BreathOfGod

I'd reply to this, but I decided not to. I was going to provide you with scriptures and what I have learned.




Yes, I know this. Read your own words, though...... "unfaithful bride."




My intention was not to give you "pat church answers." That was why I provided the scriptural basis. I believe in what the Bible says.



It has nothing to do with providing "preferred scriptures that people use when they have chosen to make up their mind about a difficult subject and in order to avoid thinking....." If you think that I am simply throwing out scriptures and have never thought about the issue of divorce, then you are dead wrong. In my first marriage, I lived with an abusive husband. I have been beat to the point where I couldn't walk for a few days. I don't talk about that marriage usually, so most people know nothing about it. I'm not going to talk about it now either. I'm not going to talk about the hell on earth that I went through, or all the things I did to be an obedient, godly wife. And I stayed in that marriage because that what what I believed was required of me as a Christian wife. I stayed until he left, walked out for another woman, moved in with her, and stated that he wanted a divorce. So, don't tell me that I am pulling out scriptures because I don't want to think about difficult subjects. Trust me, I have thought about the topic of divorce for Christians for years. I thought about the topic every time that I begged God to take my husband's life and relieve my child and I from our torment.

We all live with our mistakes for life. The product of our experiences contributes to who we are as individuals. Looking for easy solutions, or justification, is not the same as correcting a mistake and moving on. It is moving on...but there is no correction for the mistake. We can not erase our past, and as much as many would like to re-write their history it doesn't work. We can not change the past, we can only learn from it.

Yes, I do believe that you are looking for agreement. Your mind is made up, is is not? You have plans only to move forward with the divorce, you stated that you do not want prayer for reconciliation, and you also have no interest in what you call "pat church answers" based in "legalism" that make use of "preferred scriptures" which "avoid thinking." In reality, you aren't looking for thought, you are only looking for agreement. You want someone to tell you that your loveless marriage was a sham, your wife was unfaithful by with holding sex, and you have every right under God to leave her.

I wish you all the best in your search. I have full confidence that you will find the radical "thinkers" that you seek. (There are people out there who justify everything these days, including homosexuality.) As for me, I'll stick with me "legalistic, victorian, pat scriptures."

jesusworshipper

my humble and deep apologies, i meant no slight. i have been battered by church, and the answers you gave were reminiscent.
at the time of my separation, i have just found out, the church eldership. or at least two out of five, were looking to suspend my partnership. best thing to do with wounded christians is to shoot them dead.
no i am not looking for agreement. thank you for correcting me. i know and have no need for agreement that my loveless marriage was a sham.
we do not need to live with our mistakes though. if we recognise them we are given the ability and even the right to correct them. this marriage ( and by the way, there was no one else involved in the breakdown of my sham.) was avery costly and nearly deadly mistake. i choose to correct my mistake, and allow God to guide me. He has and does continue to do so.
We do tend tho to swallow whatever comes from the pulpit as the truth.
let me put this thought before you.
who signed the piece of paper that said Adam and Eve were married? (yes i am being a tad facetious here) But who says that the service, the signing of a document, the exchange of rings, renders a person married? is it not a heart issue?
i beleive that two people who have lived together for thirty or forty years, with no ceremony, no ring no piece of paper, are every bit and more in some cases, legitimate husband and wife.
ps i am not even gunna touch the other subject you mentioned at the end.
sorry i cant seem to find the smily faces but there are lots of them sprinkled through this note. all for you. you just can't see them with flesh eyes.

Ben

My 22 year old (at the time) wife (now ex wife) divorced me 33 years ago because she refused to give up her 15 year old lover. In the end however, she lost both of us. As a result of all of this, I received Christ, was baptised and began the most wonderful and exciting journey anyone could ever have, that of the Christian life.

Seven weeks after the divorce I met a wonderful Christian woman and one year later we were married. For the first 17 years she put up with my male stupidity, ignorance, foolishness, and just general nonsense. But eventually she tired of all the fighting with MR. (Always) RIGHT and we agreed that we both needed some space. So with our pastor's blessing we agreed to a marital seperation.

It was exciting living in an apartment away from my wife, for about two days. Then it began to sink in that I may have just made the biggest mistake of my life. I was on the verge of losing the most wonderful, beautiful, awesome woman God even put on earth, my wife. In counseling with my pastor he said I might as well prepare for a lengthy divorce battle because is his nearly 20 years of counseling he had never seen such a mess in one marriage. If it could be done wrong I did it and I had done it several times.

Living apart for three months though allowed me to step back (with LOTS of help from our heavenly Father) and see things a bit differently. She said I was distant towards her and in our marriage. I said I was not. She was right, I was distant. She said I was more interested in making money than I was in her or our son. I said I was not. She was right, work was # 1, they were 5th or 6th. She said I am not a close to Jesus as I should be. I said I think I am. She was right, I was not only distant with her and our son but also with Jesus. She said I was overly involved in fraternal, civic and business organizations. I said I was not. She was right. I dumped all of them. God stepped in and healed our marriage. 89 days after we seperated, we met at our church altar with our pastor, prayed, wept, thanked God and then I moved back home. We just celebrated our 32nd wedding anniversary in April.

So what did I learn? Women are usually right. I know guys, we absolutely HATE to admit it, but WAY down deep deep deep inside you, you know this to be true. Women are more in touch with their emotions, more in touch with child rearing and just generally better at relationship stuff. Listen to them.

Now guys if you are like the men in my family, you will say "this Ben guy is some sort of a wacko and obviously doesn't know what he is talking about, WOMEN RIGHT?????? GIVE ME A BREAK. I am 60 years old, and I have made virtually every mistake that can be made (or at least every one that one can survive!) :-) Listen to me.

Ben

Boanerges

Divorce is a painful thing for all involved. My sympathies to the wounded hearts. God does not like divorce because He is a healing and restoring God but He allows for it because He knows some hearts are to hard and will never bend to the call of love. He also has forgiveness for each of us no matter where we have tread.
No matter what the circumstance He is the answer- the healing we need, the new start, the new life, the wisdom, the power of forgiveness. Truly we must seek Him first to be the husband or wife we would like to be.
Many blessings in His Name, brother Larry.

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“Neither skill nor knowledge is needed to go to God, all that is necessary is a heart dedicated entirely and solely to Him out of love for Him above all others.”
Brother Lawrence