Does God Like Surprises

God does not choose for us to go to hell, we unfortunately do that to ourselves. The Lord has laid out the groundwork in His word for us to follow to secure our place in heaven and save us from eternal damnation.
God created the devil knowing that he would lead us astray, He let him tempt eve knowing that she would fall, he created a tree to tempt them, knowing that they would eat it, and then punished everyone for it. People are quite blind and easily deceived, so I don't see them to culpable. God's actions are responsible for a lot of the sin in the world.
 
God created the devil knowing that he would lead us astray, He let him tempt eve knowing that she would fall, he created a tree to tempt them, knowing that they would eat it, and then punished everyone for it. People are quite blind and easily deceived, so I don't see them to culpable. God's actions are responsible for a lot of the sin in the world.

Accidents, act of nature such as hurricane, volcanic eruptions, even death itself.. you consider them evil as well?

A similar thread where you asked similar question seems to be deleted…..

Reason i asked: the question/argument/problem you are asking seems to fall in this category what people coined a phrase “Problem of Evil”….
 
God created the devil knowing that he would lead us astray, He let him tempt eve knowing that she would fall, he created a tree to tempt them, knowing that they would eat it, and then punished everyone for it. People are quite blind and easily deceived, so I don't see them to culpable. God's actions are responsible for a lot of the sin in the world.

People abuse their free will, how is this God's fault?
Will you own up to your own sinfullness? or is that God's fault also?
God has done no evil, ever. You need to apply a little wisdom and humility to your reasoning.
 
Accidents, act of nature such as hurricane, volcanic eruptions, even death itself.. you consider them evil as well?

A similar thread where you asked similar question seems to be deleted…..

Reason i asked: the question/argument/problem you are asking seems to fall in this category what people coined a phrase “Problem of Evil”….
And for what reason was it deleted? It wasn't the same question. It was, if a human father shouldn't behave that way, why are you okay with Our Heavenly Father doing the same thing.
 
People abuse their free will, how is this God's fault?
Will you own up to your own sinfullness? or is that God's fault also?
God has done no evil, ever. You need to apply a little wisdom and humility to your reasoning.
Yes I'm a sinner. But I asked God for help and to take temptation away and make me a good boy and he did nothing but leave me in confusion. Yes, GOd created the devil knowing that he would lead us astray. God punished us because some people ate some fruit that he tempted them with knowing that they would fall prior to tempting them. And then he decided women need to be in agony when they give birth because they ate fruit they weren't suppose to and we are all condemned to suffering because of it.

Sounds great!
 
1. He knows all there is to know. He is who He is.
2. Amen. That however has nothing to do with Him limiting His omniscience to respect our free will.
3. That is an un-scriptural assumption. Please see all the scripture I gave in post #28.
4. Another assumption.
5. Another assumption.
6. Amen. We can't escape Him. That has nothing to do with Him giving us free will though / limiting His omniscience ...on our decision to serve Him or not.
How do you explain Psalm 139:16 & Jeremiah 1:5?
 
Can an ant fully grasp the mind of the Creator of all? Does anyone here have any idea on how God was created? What God's lifespan is? What I am saying is that 'inherent / limited omniscience' is where the evidence / scripture points.

Can you accept
that a God knowing who will be in hell is evil for creating them for hell? Can you accept that if God cannot be surprised, free will is a joke? All I see is beating around the bush in the posts here. ""God is good'''....'''we have free will'' .... and somehow added to that ....God cannot be surprised o_O.

I agree with 'William lane Craig''. Omniscience vs free will subdivides into two questions:
1. If God foreknows the occurrence of some event E, does E happen necessarily?, and
2. If some event E is contingent, how can God foreknow E’s occurrence?

Most here seem to fall into 1. Suggesting foreknowing does not equal controlling outcome. But...how can any of you accept / judge that God is good without sounding mad?...when the stone cold truth of your belief is then that God foreknows a baby will be in hell. I am really so tired of all dodging this!

If God knows a baby will be in hell = evil Christian belief = evil God.

If God does not know baby will choose hell = good God = good Christian belief.

If we can prove that God's will is not always achieved and that God does change His mind, it proves He can be surprised.

God's will is not always achieved:

1 Tim 2:4 Who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Gen 6:6 The LORD was grieved that He had made man on the earth, and His heart was filled with pain.
Psalm 37:23 The steps of a man are established by the Lord, when he delights in his way
.
John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Ezekiel 18:30-32 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.
Prov 16:1 The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.
James 1:13-16 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. (If it were you standing at the door, would you not be surprised if someone opened?).


Note: Our fate is clearly dependent on us. A logical person will then conclude that God is indeed surprised by our choices. Glad when we repent and sad when we don't.


God changes His mind:

Exodus 32:14 So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.
Jonah 3:10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, He had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction He had threatened.
Jer 15:6 You have rejected me," declares the LORD. "You keep on backsliding. So I will lay hands on you and destroy you; I can no longer show compassion''.
Ezekiel 24:14 'I the LORD have spoken. The time has come for me to act. I will not hold back; I will not have pity, nor will I relent. You will be judged according to your conduct and your actions, declares the Sovereign Lord.


Note: If God changes His mind = He adapts to new information = then God does not know all things.

God does not change:

Mal 3:6 'I the LORD do not change'.
Exod 3:14 'I am who I am'.
Heb 13:8 'Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever'.


Note: God is good. Him not changing who He is, does not mean He does not change His mind. Changing His mind makes Him good. It shows that He is constantly seeking a way to justify us / buy us extra time / have extra mercy. Like a kid you want to put in detention but then they simply just apologize so sincerely / do something selfless after every mistake that you just can't bring yourself to do it. The kids actions just surprise you.
"Our fate is clearly dependent on us" & "Him not changing who He is, does not mean He does not change His mind" You do realize how unbiblical this is right?? Also, if God limits his omniscience, then was he evil before he limited it? Your arguments are erroneous.
 
How do you explain Psalm 139:16 & Jeremiah 1:5?
The same way I explain Rom 9. God being able to do anything does not mean He then does in fact proceed to do evil.

I can kill an ant, but do I? I can read my wife's diary, but do I?

God does what pleases Him Psalm 135:6. Do you think it pleased God to form Hitler, Judas, Nero, Saddam in their mothers womb? See I believe it pleases God to remove Himself from knowing our free will decisions. That is why He declared to us that ''the whomsoever will'' may be saved. Was God lying?
 
"Our fate is clearly dependent on us" & "Him not changing who He is, does not mean He does not change His mind" You do realize how unbiblical this is right??
How so? 1. We are told to bend the knee. If we don't we don't get salvation. 2. God is good. He considers our prayers. He was en route to doing nothing until we prayed. You need to try grasp that.

James 4:2-3 You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God.

Just read it ''''as is''''. We place assumptions in. We assume God has total omniscience. When scripture points toward limited omniscience.

"Also, if God limits his omniscience, then was he evil before he limited it? Your arguments are erroneous.

Not sure how you are picturing Him being evil before if He limits it? Him limiting it makes Him good. How do you explain Him creating someone with full knowledge of them being tormented in hell for eternity? Would any sane person on this planet call that God good?
 
I want to show you the mistake you are making 'God is love' with an equation:

Scripture says:

God is omniscient (all knowing) + God is omnipotent (unlimited power) + God is good + God does what pleases Him + God created hell + God died for us = God gives us true free will / limits His omniscience = God can do anything, even limit His omniscience to uphold who He is, a good God.

What you are doing is only taking half of those!!! and then assuming. Your mind stops at '''God is omniscient'' and goes into blind-fully excusing God of all evil that exists...when scripture does not point in that direction.

Your equation:

God is omniscient (all knowing) + God is omnipotent (unlimited power) + God does what pleases Him + God created hell + God died for us = Calvinism. (if not Calvinism....then, when you say God is good, people in the world think you are mad as eternal torment = eternal torment).

Now we can be forgiven for not grasping how God's mind work. We are an ant. I am not saying you are wrong and I am right. I am just saying, let's look at where scripture points and not quote half of scripture and then assume.
 
How so? 1. We are told to bend the knee. If we don't we don't get salvation. 2. God is good. He considers our prayers. He was en route to doing nothing until we prayed. You need to try grasp that.

James 4:2-3 You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God.

Just read it ''''as is''''. We place assumptions in. We assume God has total omniscience. When scripture points toward limited omniscience.



Not sure how you are picturing Him being evil before if He limits it? Him limiting it makes Him good. How do you explain Him creating someone with full knowledge of them being tormented in hell for eternity? Would any sane person on this planet call that God good?
"Not sure how you are picturing Him being evil before if He limits it? Him limiting it makes Him good. How do you explain Him creating someone with full knowledge of them being tormented in hell for eternity? Would any sane person on this planet call that God good?"

Considering God created everything and knows everything you would have to conclude that at one point he knew that Johnny or whoever was going to go to hell. You are saying that God would be evil to create Johnny knowing he would go to hell and that he limited his omniscience in order to not condemn Johnny. My point was that if God was considered evil for knowing who was going to hell and then making them, then 'before God limited his omniscience' he would have known that he was going to make Johnny go to hell, making God evil in your book.
 
Considering God created everything and knows everything you would have to conclude that at one point he knew that Johnny or whoever was going to go to hell. You are saying that God would be evil to create Johnny knowing he would go to hell and that he limited his omniscience in order to not condemn Johnny. My point was that if God was considered evil for knowing who was going to hell and then making them, then 'before God limited his omniscience' he would have known that he was going to make Johnny go to hell, making God evil in your book.

When He made or thought about making Johnny. He had only good intentions for him.

1 Tim 2:4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth + Matt 19:14 God wants no babies in hell.

The ball I want to knock back in your court is....if God knows all + all babies go to heaven....then are we justified in killing our babies / killing babies = we send them to heaven? Or do you believe some babies go to hell?
 
And for what reason was it deleted? It wasn't the same question. It was, if a human father shouldn't behave that way, why are you okay with Our Heavenly Father doing the same thing.

that is not I observed in your examples in that thread....

I remember your example is the children behave that way (evil acts) towards each other...

my question is: do you consider hurricane, volcanic eruptions as evil as well?

why I ask that? because I like to understand first what you consider as evil...
 
When He made or thought about making Johnny. He had only good intentions for him.

1 Tim 2:4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth + Matt 19:14 God wants no babies in hell.

The ball I want to knock back in your court is....if God knows all + all babies go to heaven....then are we justified in killing our babies / killing babies = we send them to heaven? Or do you believe some babies go to hell?
Pulled straight from the 10 commandments, "Thou shalt not kill".
 
Pulled straight from the 10 commandments, "Thou shalt not kill".
That is a cop out though. Killing my baby when it goes to heaven at the risk of me to hell for ''murder'' is very noble of me. Probably get a high position in heaven for it. You probably knew this was coming ;).
 
That is a cop out though. Killing my baby when it goes to heaven at the risk of me to hell for ''murder'' is very noble of me. Probably get a high position in heaven for it. You probably knew this was coming ;).
No it's not a cop out, it's in the Bible, unlike any mention of God limiting his omniscience. Stop trying to teach things that aren't written.
 
No it's not a cop out, it's in the Bible, unlike any mention of God limiting his omniscience. Stop trying to teach things that aren't written.
C'mon even that statement is a cop out.

So when God says ''whomsoever will'' and ''I will that all be saved'' ...He is lying? He should be saying John, Bob and Tod will be saved.
 
Joel Osteen, Jimmy Swaggart, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Franklin Graham - which of these has the spirit of truth of God and which does not? And how can we tell?

Refer back to Jesus himself.... Matt 7:6

You will know a tree by it's fruit... No one picks Thistles from a fig tree.... No one picks Grapes out of Thorn bushes....

In this case - Jesus is making a specific distinction - things that ARE fruit vs things that are NOT fruit.....
It's not a distinction between "Good fruit" and Good fruit that is diseased or infested.....

Realize this... When you Tend and Nurture and Encourage and devote resources to a Thistle.... All you get are HEALTHY thistles that sow MORE thistles..... When you "Cure" a diseased Thistle - you get Healthy Thistles.... and they are STILL Thistles!

Say, on the other hand... you tend and nurture and encourage a pear tree that is producing "Diseased fruit".... What happens - you cure the disease and you get Good Pears..... The pear tree does not start bearing Thistles.....

So... Investigate the FRUIT of their ministry... Not what they SAY it is... but the ACTUAL fruit.... Are they creating people who "Look Spiritual" - but have no interest in Jesus as Messiah and God.... Are they "Sowing" discord among the faithful and creating divisions and hatred where none existed previously? Are they preying on the weak, sick, and lost to accumulate riches, power, and position?

What are their "Disciples" doing? This is often a good barometer - because THESE are the "Seeds they Sow"... A really skillful Deceiver can hide themselves exceedingly well... They can "Appear" to bear good fruit... but look at their Disciples.... Do they foster disciples whose mission is to declare all others Apostates and to sow Hatred among the churches? Do they foster disciples who preach "Spirituality" - but not the Blood of Jesus... Do they foster disciples who ONLY use the word of their Master - or are their disciples PROVING everything by the Word of God..... Are their disciples moving towards lives of Service and Love for other Christians and the Unsaved - or are they just looking to go out and make money, power, fame, etc....

You get the idea....
 
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