It don't matter what "you" "think" it matters what the scriptures declare.. I am glad your son was baptized...but it does not make a sound biblical debate or point... that requires a knowledge of the scriptures...which to this point I have not seen from you? Im sorry, you seem desperate that I or others would approve you in some way? But that approval that you are seeking comes from a labor in the Word.. and an ability in the truth.
Daniel 9
- Thread starter AllieWi
- Start date
I'm sorry to hear about your family. My condolences.
Silk...look at the post this guy has made to me...please don't try to equate our actions ...this is nothing more than an attempt to provoke me...read the post he has made to me the last three days and ask yourself if this is not just an attempt to provoke me?
So this is how we debate? No this kind of thing he has done for the last three days and the mods are allowing him to provoke me....Its that plain and simple.
My friend.....and I shall also say my brother, I am not in any way angry at you. I do not care what kind of education have. You are free to contribute all you care to. THIS IS NOT A COMPITITION!!!! It is a learning and sharing experience whereby the Word of God is being exposed for the whole world to read. Everyone uses the copy and paste ability to communicate, But if it is not your own words then you need to so state that. Most everyone here knows a copy and paste work when it is seen. But that is not the problem is it????
If you had been here longer OR if you had taken the time to read back through the years of my contributions here, you would then have seen that I DO NOT HAVE A HIGH EVALUATION of myself. I have no more ability than anyone else and less than most here.
I am nothing more than an old country boy from Alabama. There are some highly educated and very spiritual people associated with this web site and Mr. Mitspha is one of them. I am honored to call him one of my friends.
I am sorry you lost your parents at such an early age but do you think that the other people you are running down have not had the same exact thing happen to them? Do you not know that several people here have lost children to suicide on this web site. Some have lost there parents just as you did and almost all have experienced divorce in their families. Some people right now reading our words are in fact struggling with terminal cancer. People here are like they are everywhere else and that is damaged. We are all, including you damaged people. We are all SINNERS and we all have hopefully come to Christ for His healing power to flood over us.
When that happens....we are CHANGED people and now we are FORGIVEN SINNERS and we want to exhibit love, and compassion and understanding to everyone we possibly can. That is what living the Christian life is all about. Sharing Christ to a lost world!
Now having said all of that to you I now need to tell you that your words and actions and thinking are not acceptable Christian actions. You are showing us how to be mean spirited, argumentative, and rude. You are resorting to name calling other Christians publically. IN your post above you have used these words........."I do know however that nut spa is wrong".
Do you think that is acceptable talk to say to another Christian?
Would it not be wiser and more Christian to say something like......"I do not believe that Mitspha and myself are going to be able to agree on this thing".
Come on now and lets act like what Christ told us to act like and love the brethren. If I can be of help in someway, all you have to do is ask or send me a PM. (Start a Conversation).
I know that the part of me that gets frustrated and a bit angry when I am called names and ridiculed, is not the Spirit of God..but my own flesh.. I have and yet need to take that "thing" in me that gets offended...and crucify it with Christ. I have not attain to that yet but as God as my witness I have sought that that part of me would be put to death. I do get a little defensive and I am pretty good at the back and forth...but I know that is not Gods perfect will..I will press on towards His upward call.
NOPE! More to it than that. I was looking at it from the start as a matter of fact. The same thing has happened kind, and sweet and lovable and wonderful little ole me. (Cute too).
Someone new comes in with all guns blazing so as to make an entrance worth remembering at someone else's expense.
Brother........you are a lot better at it than I am. Honestly. You have kept your cool better that I would have.
Well I would not leave now for all the tea in China...
There's tea in China???
I, too, have been reading this thread from the start. And I don't agree with calling names and don't want to condone it either. Intojoy is new here and has been called on his posts. There are old and new posters who all think they know everything. I once did too. Of course, 
I do know almost everything...but continued scrapping gets us nowhere. Just sayin'.
I do know almost everything...but continued scrapping gets us nowhere. Just sayin'. Well Silk I was not referring to this thread.. look on Allies thread "some will say Lord Lord" Read his attacks..and tell me the mods are not allowing him to attack me? I know I and others reported these attacks...yet they are still allowed?I, too, have been reading this thread from the start. And I don't agree with calling names and don't want to condone it either. Intojoy is new here and has been called on his posts. There are old and new posters who all think they know everything. I once did too. Of course,
OK - sorry, I was not aware and have not read the other thread (yet). Hmmmmm. I am glad you have not risen to the bait then. God Bless.
Well.........before all of this confrontational nonsense came up, we all were involved in studying Daniel. What say we press on to 9:24?
My apologies first for such a long post. I will come back with more on the 70 weeks later.
Daniel 9:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."
Now we begin to get into the meat of the study. This is where we will see all kinds of comments and input.
I will try to break this verse down so we can all understand its meaning. Without a doubt, Gabriel reveals to Daniel that a period SEVEN times as long as the one mentioned by Jeremiah, which he has just been studying, is yet to come to pass before God's plan for Israel will be consummated.
IMO, the understanding of the seventy weeks is the most important revelation in all Scripture because it gives the interpretation of prophetic chronology as it is the key that unlocks the Scriptures of truth and it discloses that the seventy weeks cover the period when the Jews are dwelling in their own land.
It has nothing to do with the period of time when the Jews are NOT in their land....the Promised Land.
Verse 24 tells us 6 things that reveal the purpose of the seventy weeks.
1. To finish the transgression.
2. To make an end of sin.
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. To bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. To seal up the vision and prophecy.
6. To anoint the most Holy.
So then lets consider each one of these.
1. To finish the Transgression.
It is extremely important for everyone to keep in mind that these "things" we are talking about have to do only with Daniel's people, the JEWS. The events will take place in the Holy City which is Jerusalem. The Gentiles and the CHURCH are not in view in any way.
Some people teach "Replacement Theology" and that is not me. IF that is going to be your train of thought and comments, PLEASE start another thread with that as your subject. If we do that on this one, it will do nothing but bog us down into a heretical teaching that will do nothing but get our eyes off of the study we are doing.
To make it simple as possible......to take the promises God gave to Abraham and then apply them to the church is spiritual robbery IMHO. To say and to spiritualize Israel and teach that the church has taken the place of Israel, is to wrongly divide the Word of Truth.
Messiah Jesus made an end to sin on the cross of Calvary.
Hebrews 10:12............
"But this man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God".
We also know that the Lord Jesus Christ brought about reconciliation from iniquity when we read Romans 5:6-10.........
"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."
But the atonement and the reconciliation purchased by Jesus for the whole world, through His shed blood on the cross, is not in view here, for here we read of the putting away or the finishing of the transgression, and this refers to one distinct class of people-
the JEWS.
To this very day, the Jews are still cut off and the "wild olive branch" is still grafted in. The transgression of the Jew will not be finished until they as a nation repent and turn to God. This IMO will take place after the Rapture of the church, and at the end of the Great Tribulation Period when Israel sees Him whom they pierced and recognize the nail prints in His hands.
Zech. 13:6-9.......
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
2. To Make an End of Sin.
The statement has to do with the Jews at a specific time. Paul describes the time in Romans 11:26-27........
"26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."
This will not take place until the Lord Jesus Christ comes in the Revelation at the end which is called Armageddon. This does not refer to the Rapture because that is also for a specific people...the Church. The Rapture takes place before the Tribulation Period but in the Revelation. It is my opinion that Rev. 4:1 is the description of the Rapture.
Jesus will come in glory and great power and every eye shall see Him, all the kindred's of the earth shall wail because of Him, and He will then deliver Israel and make an end of sin.
3. To Make Reconciliation for Iniquity.
Here, the Holy Spirit is speaking of the "iniquity of Israel". The word INIQUITY means..."unrighteousness, wickedness, ungodliness". Isaiah speaks of iniquity in his 53 chapter verse #6........
"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way, and the Lord hath laid on Him the INIQUITY of us all".
It is true that Jehovah God laid on Jesus the Iniquity of all men. BUT that does not apply to the Jew as a nation. In this time we live in today of Gods grace, the Jew is saved exactly as is the Gentile. If a Jew desires to be saved and become a Christian, he must believe on the Lord Jesus, and trust in His shed blood and receive Him by faith.
Galatians 3:26-28.....
"26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus".
There are many people across this land we live in today that say the English speaking people of the world are Israel. They also teach that the Church has replaced Israel. Folks, both of those teachings are definitely wrong!!!
4. To Bring in Everlasting Righteousness.
The night that Jesus was born, a heavenly host appeared in the sky, "praising God and saying, glory to God in the highest and on earth, peace, goodwill toward men".
Isaiah tells us that there will be a day when men will beat their swords into plows and their spears into pruning hooks, and there will be no more war.
If kings and presidents would but just read the Bible, they would know that there can never be everlasting righteousness as long as the devil is running loose on the earth.
There can never be peace until King Jesus sits on the throne of David in Jerusalem when the knowledge of the Lord will cover the whole earth.
Jeremiah 31:33-34........
"33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
5. To seal up the Vision and Prophecy.
When Jesus comes and sets up His Kingdom on earth, there will be no more need for visions or prophecy.
1 Corth. 13:8-10......
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away with".
The only perfect thing I know of that would be perfect would be the Bible and the Lord Jesus Christ.
I am one who does not believe that prophets and apostles are valid today. I know some will reject that and that is fine. That is what Bible study is all about. Take a look at what the belief in prophets and prophecy has done to the LDS denomination.
6. To Anoint the Most High.
Before commenting on this, I would encourage you to read through Ezekiel chapters 41 & 42. They will tell you that there will be a new temple in Jerusalem. It will be where the old one was.
The glory of God will once again return to the tabernacle of God. From the Scriptures we see that when Jesus returns to the earth and the new Temple is built, the glory will return and anoint that most holy place.
My apologies first for such a long post. I will come back with more on the 70 weeks later.
Daniel 9:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."
Now we begin to get into the meat of the study. This is where we will see all kinds of comments and input.
I will try to break this verse down so we can all understand its meaning. Without a doubt, Gabriel reveals to Daniel that a period SEVEN times as long as the one mentioned by Jeremiah, which he has just been studying, is yet to come to pass before God's plan for Israel will be consummated.
IMO, the understanding of the seventy weeks is the most important revelation in all Scripture because it gives the interpretation of prophetic chronology as it is the key that unlocks the Scriptures of truth and it discloses that the seventy weeks cover the period when the Jews are dwelling in their own land.
It has nothing to do with the period of time when the Jews are NOT in their land....the Promised Land.
Verse 24 tells us 6 things that reveal the purpose of the seventy weeks.
1. To finish the transgression.
2. To make an end of sin.
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. To bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. To seal up the vision and prophecy.
6. To anoint the most Holy.
So then lets consider each one of these.
1. To finish the Transgression.
It is extremely important for everyone to keep in mind that these "things" we are talking about have to do only with Daniel's people, the JEWS. The events will take place in the Holy City which is Jerusalem. The Gentiles and the CHURCH are not in view in any way.
Some people teach "Replacement Theology" and that is not me. IF that is going to be your train of thought and comments, PLEASE start another thread with that as your subject. If we do that on this one, it will do nothing but bog us down into a heretical teaching that will do nothing but get our eyes off of the study we are doing.
To make it simple as possible......to take the promises God gave to Abraham and then apply them to the church is spiritual robbery IMHO. To say and to spiritualize Israel and teach that the church has taken the place of Israel, is to wrongly divide the Word of Truth.
Messiah Jesus made an end to sin on the cross of Calvary.
Hebrews 10:12............
"But this man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God".
We also know that the Lord Jesus Christ brought about reconciliation from iniquity when we read Romans 5:6-10.........
"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."
But the atonement and the reconciliation purchased by Jesus for the whole world, through His shed blood on the cross, is not in view here, for here we read of the putting away or the finishing of the transgression, and this refers to one distinct class of people-
the JEWS.
To this very day, the Jews are still cut off and the "wild olive branch" is still grafted in. The transgression of the Jew will not be finished until they as a nation repent and turn to God. This IMO will take place after the Rapture of the church, and at the end of the Great Tribulation Period when Israel sees Him whom they pierced and recognize the nail prints in His hands.
Zech. 13:6-9.......
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
2. To Make an End of Sin.
The statement has to do with the Jews at a specific time. Paul describes the time in Romans 11:26-27........
"26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."
This will not take place until the Lord Jesus Christ comes in the Revelation at the end which is called Armageddon. This does not refer to the Rapture because that is also for a specific people...the Church. The Rapture takes place before the Tribulation Period but in the Revelation. It is my opinion that Rev. 4:1 is the description of the Rapture.
Jesus will come in glory and great power and every eye shall see Him, all the kindred's of the earth shall wail because of Him, and He will then deliver Israel and make an end of sin.
3. To Make Reconciliation for Iniquity.
Here, the Holy Spirit is speaking of the "iniquity of Israel". The word INIQUITY means..."unrighteousness, wickedness, ungodliness". Isaiah speaks of iniquity in his 53 chapter verse #6........
"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way, and the Lord hath laid on Him the INIQUITY of us all".
It is true that Jehovah God laid on Jesus the Iniquity of all men. BUT that does not apply to the Jew as a nation. In this time we live in today of Gods grace, the Jew is saved exactly as is the Gentile. If a Jew desires to be saved and become a Christian, he must believe on the Lord Jesus, and trust in His shed blood and receive Him by faith.
Galatians 3:26-28.....
"26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus".
There are many people across this land we live in today that say the English speaking people of the world are Israel. They also teach that the Church has replaced Israel. Folks, both of those teachings are definitely wrong!!!
4. To Bring in Everlasting Righteousness.
The night that Jesus was born, a heavenly host appeared in the sky, "praising God and saying, glory to God in the highest and on earth, peace, goodwill toward men".
Isaiah tells us that there will be a day when men will beat their swords into plows and their spears into pruning hooks, and there will be no more war.
If kings and presidents would but just read the Bible, they would know that there can never be everlasting righteousness as long as the devil is running loose on the earth.
There can never be peace until King Jesus sits on the throne of David in Jerusalem when the knowledge of the Lord will cover the whole earth.
Jeremiah 31:33-34........
"33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
5. To seal up the Vision and Prophecy.
When Jesus comes and sets up His Kingdom on earth, there will be no more need for visions or prophecy.
1 Corth. 13:8-10......
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away with".
The only perfect thing I know of that would be perfect would be the Bible and the Lord Jesus Christ.
I am one who does not believe that prophets and apostles are valid today. I know some will reject that and that is fine. That is what Bible study is all about. Take a look at what the belief in prophets and prophecy has done to the LDS denomination.
6. To Anoint the Most High.
Before commenting on this, I would encourage you to read through Ezekiel chapters 41 & 42. They will tell you that there will be a new temple in Jerusalem. It will be where the old one was.
The glory of God will once again return to the tabernacle of God. From the Scriptures we see that when Jesus returns to the earth and the new Temple is built, the glory will return and anoint that most holy place.
The first posting on Daniel 9:24 was way too long. There was no way to get everything into such a small frame.
So then, I need to explain the SEVENTY WEEKS prophecy.
This verse 24 is a quick summary of the seventy weeks. The next verses detail the meanings.
Seventy weeks was used because the Hebrews would understand the symbolism of a week meaning seven years, depending on the context, of course. This means a day was used for a year. Therefore, 70 weeks times 7years/week is 490 years. About the end of this period a sacrifice will be offered, making full atonement for sin, and bringing in everlasting righteousness for the complete justification of every believer. Then the Jews, in the crucifixion of Jesus, would commit that crime by which the measure of their guilt would be filled up, and troubles would come upon their nation. This seals the sum of prophecy, and confirms the covenant with many; and while we rejoice in the blessings of salvation, we should remember what they cost the Redeemer. How can those escape who neglect so great salvation!
Seventy weeks were decreed upon Daniel's people. In the Bible, sometimes, depending on the context especially in prophecy, a day can be a year, therefore, a "week" can mean seven years. Seventy weeks means literally 70 sevens (70 X 7). It may be obvious years are meant because Daniel had been thinking of the years of the captivity in v 9:2 (70 years of captivity). If the timing is 490 days, that would be 16 months; 490 weeks would be 9-1/2 years. They are both too short to accommodate the events of the prophecy. When the Jews mean days, they say days.
This period of 490 years concerns your people (the Jews) and your holy city (Jerusalem). "to finish the transgression" refers to end the apostasy (turning their backs on Jesus) of the Jews and gentiles. "to make an end of sin" means, literally, to make an end to sin offerings and to atone for sin or to seal up sin in the sense of judging it finally. "to make atonement for iniquity" for Christians this refers to the death of Christ on the cross, which is the basis for Israel's future forgiveness.
The most difficult thing in the understanding of this prophecy is where does it start? There are at least 3 decrees that could be used.
I used the below site so that I would not have to do so much typing.
http://www.bjm-home.com/daniel/chap9.html
So then, I need to explain the SEVENTY WEEKS prophecy.
This verse 24 is a quick summary of the seventy weeks. The next verses detail the meanings.
Seventy weeks was used because the Hebrews would understand the symbolism of a week meaning seven years, depending on the context, of course. This means a day was used for a year. Therefore, 70 weeks times 7years/week is 490 years. About the end of this period a sacrifice will be offered, making full atonement for sin, and bringing in everlasting righteousness for the complete justification of every believer. Then the Jews, in the crucifixion of Jesus, would commit that crime by which the measure of their guilt would be filled up, and troubles would come upon their nation. This seals the sum of prophecy, and confirms the covenant with many; and while we rejoice in the blessings of salvation, we should remember what they cost the Redeemer. How can those escape who neglect so great salvation!
Seventy weeks were decreed upon Daniel's people. In the Bible, sometimes, depending on the context especially in prophecy, a day can be a year, therefore, a "week" can mean seven years. Seventy weeks means literally 70 sevens (70 X 7). It may be obvious years are meant because Daniel had been thinking of the years of the captivity in v 9:2 (70 years of captivity). If the timing is 490 days, that would be 16 months; 490 weeks would be 9-1/2 years. They are both too short to accommodate the events of the prophecy. When the Jews mean days, they say days.
This period of 490 years concerns your people (the Jews) and your holy city (Jerusalem). "to finish the transgression" refers to end the apostasy (turning their backs on Jesus) of the Jews and gentiles. "to make an end of sin" means, literally, to make an end to sin offerings and to atone for sin or to seal up sin in the sense of judging it finally. "to make atonement for iniquity" for Christians this refers to the death of Christ on the cross, which is the basis for Israel's future forgiveness.
The most difficult thing in the understanding of this prophecy is where does it start? There are at least 3 decrees that could be used.
I used the below site so that I would not have to do so much typing.
http://www.bjm-home.com/daniel/chap9.html
sorry for the post above
yes that went way to fast
would it be possible to do each one ?
too finish the transgression
i have comments on what you said
but only if you want the discussion