Did God Create More People Than Just Adam And Eve?

I struggle with the idea of hearing a pastor talk about a subject, then reading the scripture and then telling your self "if I question this, it is wrong"

I also struggle with having these "beliefs" based off of church tradition and just accepting them while ignoring everything else that is going on in the world based on the fact that we should not question the word?

If you are reading the English bible you are reading a translation of the bible by a man and If you are living based on what your pastor says without questioning it....Your faith is in "man" not in God.

I do however agree 100% with what Stan said about the bible should not have to proove science and vise versa.
 
Tainted Scrolls said:
I struggle with the idea of hearing a pastor talk about a subject, then reading the scripture and then telling your self "if I question this, it is wrong"

I also struggle with having these "beliefs" based off of church tradition and just accepting them while ignoring everything else that is going on in the world based on the fact that we should not question the word?

If you are reading the English bible you are reading a translation of the bible by a man and If you are living based on what your pastor says without questioning it....Your faith is in "man" not in God.

I do however agree 100% with what Stan said about the bible should not have to proove science and vise versa.
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TS,
I'm going to be guilty of assuming here but here it goes. God is unlimited in power! He spoke and the Universes sprung, for the lack of a better word, into existence. God had created dirt and He took that dirt and He created Man. God then breathed life into the man and when the man was lonely, God took one rib out of the living, breathing man and created the most beautiful thing man had ever seen, a woman.

And you worry about the English Translations of the scriptures? Do you really believe that God is such a wimp that He cannot maintain the purity of His Word? God inspired about 40 men to write His Book and I tell you the truth, God inspired men to translate it. Are there evil translations? Unfortunately there are a couple but the New World Translation is accepted by the JWs only and the gender neutral NIV is being rejected as we speak, God is maintaining the purity of His Word. If you would like a word for word translation, there is no such thing and if you speak more than one language, you know why. But the one I use, the NASB is as close to a word for word as is possible.

You can believe the Bible, without question, unlike anything else in this world.
 
th1bill said:
TS,
I'm going to be guilty of assuming here but here it goes. God is unlimited in power! He spoke and the Universes sprung, for the lack of a better word, into existence. God had created dirt and He took that dirt and He created Man. God then breathed life into the man and when the man was lonely, God took one rib out of the living, breathing man and created the most beautiful thing man had ever seen, a woman.

And you worry about the English Translations of the scriptures? Do you really believe that God is such a wimp that He cannot maintain the purity of His Word? God inspired about 40 men to write His Book and I tell you the truth, God inspired men to translate it. Are there evil translations? Unfortunately there are a couple but the New World Translation is accepted by the JWs only and the gender neutral NIV is being rejected as we speak, God is maintaining the purity of His Word. If you would like a word for word translation, there is no such thing and if you speak more than one language, you know why. But the one I use, the NASB is as close to a word for word as is possible.

You can believe the Bible, without question, unlike anything else in this world.
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I also use the NASB--it's a great translation. However, the bible isn't one book, but rather a collection of books, and many of them are written differently. Some are literal recounts, some are poetry, some are like instruction manuals, some are like non-fictional story-telling.

In TS's defense, he's trying to account for how this is to be perceived. Not questioning God's capability or the validity of the bible, but rather how a certain part SHOULD be read.

We should indeed have a childlike faith, but we shouldn't have a childish faith and downplay the Word of our Lord (not making accusations).
 
Tainted Scrolls said:
If you are reading the English bible you are reading a translation of the bible by a man and If you are living based on what your pastor says without questioning it....Your faith is in "man" not in God.
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There are many tools we have to help us get deeper into understanding concepts in the Bible.

As many people on these forums will be able to confirm, when you begin looking into the meaning of words and concepts from the original languages the Bible was written in, you realise that much had been lost in translation. There is no "pure" translation, many concepts cannot be fully translated into English. Fortunately, all hope is not lost! There is a long and rich history in Christianity of working to better understand these ancient languages, and many resulting translation tools are available to everyone for free.

I recommend the esword software, found here for free: http://www.e-sword.net/. It's not incredibly user-friendly, but it has many free Bible tranalations, study tools, and links to the original language. It's been very useful to me. Some translations and resources do have to be purchased if you want them, but the price is pretty reasonable.

I think you have a good attitude about reading your Bible. I think it goes without saying that you should not trust the word of a person without evaluation, including translation work done by people. Fortunately, you don't have to simply trust people, there are options available to you to dig deeper, test, evaluate, and pursue truth. It's a lifelong work. We'll never have all the answers here on earth, but we are rewarded with many revelations as we continue to pursue truth.

As Paul says, "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known." 1 Corinthians 13:12

Peace, brother. We're all on the same journey.
 
Tainted Scrolls said:
I struggle with the idea of hearing a pastor talk about a subject, then reading the scripture and then telling your self "if I question this, it is wrong"

I also struggle with having these "beliefs" based off of church tradition and just accepting them while ignoring everything else that is going on in the world based on the fact that we should not question the word?

If you are reading the English bible you are reading a translation of the bible by a man and If you are living based on what your pastor says without questioning it....Your faith is in "man" not in God.

I do however agree 100% with what Stan said about the bible should not have to proove science and vise versa.
Click to expand...

Personally......I see it as wrong to try to draw out scientific data about the creation of the universe from Genesis. Both young-earth creationists and old-earth creationists are guilty of pouring modern scientific terms back into Genesis. God could have written in scientific terms like E=mc2 , but He did not. I believe God had to accommodate himself to our limited knowledge, and limited language to communicate with us.

God did not choose to use technical scientific terms to communicate with us. God used the common language, and familiar phrases of their day. God could have told us that the sun does not rise nor set, but that the earth is spinning around the sun. God instead used the common language of sunrise and sunset which was literal to the writers back then, but which modern concordists excuse as phenomenal language that we still use today. God is trying to communicate absolute spiritual truths, not shifting scientific theories.
God’s purpose of inspiration is clearly stated in II Timothy 3:16 which says that the Bible is inspired by God so that it is profitable for instruction in righteousness not instruction in science. To take a poem and use it as a scientific text is wrong. It is like trying to use a hammer as a screwdriver. It does not work. One must understand the historical context and meaning of the original language that the Bible was written in.

I recommend an excellent web site to you.......http://www.bibleandscience.com/science/bibleandscience.htm
 
LysanderShapiro said:
I also use the NASB--it's a great translation. However, the bible isn't one book, but rather a collection of books, and many of them are written differently. Some are literal recounts, some are poetry, some are like instruction manuals, some are like non-fictional story-telling.

In TS's defense, he's trying to account for how this is to be perceived. Not questioning God's capability or the validity of the bible, but rather how a certain part SHOULD be read.

We should indeed have a childlike faith, but we shouldn't have a childish faith and downplay the Word of our Lord (not making accusations).
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Nor did I. My point was to fortify his waning faith. You may take the position that the Bible is 66 books and I'll not put my foot in my mouth as far as you have here. The Bible, every book and every chapter has one point to make, salvation is for every man, if he will accept it.

I'm 68 now and converted at 45. My purpose has been, from that day, to get to know the Saviour and the Saviour is the author of the Bible, one book with one message. Please, let's not act like children and pretend we can speak for TS, he's a big boy.
 
Major said:
To take a poem and use it as a scientific text is wrong. It is like trying to use a hammer as a screwdriver. It does not work. One must understand the historical context and meaning of the original language that the Bible was written in.
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Major, I totally agree, I've had a lot of major insights by understanding the linguistic and historical context in areas of the Bible. Another thing that's helped me a lot is understanding ancient Hebrew genre. You mentioned the problems when you try to read a poem like it's a scientific text, and you're absolutely right: you have to understand the genre. The ancient Hebrews wrote in very specific, fairly rigid genres that we don't use anymore, so understanding those genres is yet another tool we have to give context to what we read in the Bible.

(On a side note, I think we may have had a bit of a hiccup in trying to understand each other's perspective on another issue, but you're speaking my language here, and I agree with everything you wrote, passionately! Thank you for the post.)
 
th1bill said:
Nor did I. My point was to fortify his waning faith. You may take the position that the Bible is 66 books and I'll not put my foot in my mouth as far as you have here. The Bible, every book and every chapter has one point to make, salvation is for every man, if he will accept it.

I'm 68 now and converted at 45. My purpose has been, from that day, to get to know the Saviour and the Saviour is the author of the Bible, one book with one message. Please, let's not act like children and pretend we can speak for TS, he's a big boy.
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Have I put my foot in my mouth? I certainly didn't mean to offend you, friend.
 
Roads said:
Major, I totally agree, I've had a lot of major insights by understanding the linguistic and historical context in areas of the Bible. Another thing that's helped me a lot is understanding ancient Hebrew genre. You mentioned the problems when you try to read a poem like it's a scientific text, and you're absolutely right: you have to understand the genre. The ancient Hebrews wrote in very specific, fairly rigid genres that we don't use anymore, so understanding those genres is yet another tool we have to give context to what we read in the Bible.

(On a side note, I think we may have had a bit of a hiccup in trying to understand each other's perspective on another issue, but you're speaking my language here, and I agree with everything you wrote, passionately! Thank you for the post.)
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Welcome Roads,

I understand where you are coming from here but you also have to remember that translators are tasked with doing this as well. None of the modern English translations ignore the historical or social context of the Greek text, or the Hebrew when it is used. They employ people for just such purposes and I think you'll find that almost all of them consistently say the same thing.
Of course understanding the style of the writing is very important, and with the help of the Holy Spirit, we should all try to do that. Some times people don't understand when hyperbole is being used and take it as literal, and vice-versa. Then there is allegory, metaphor and symbolism.
It is also important to understand that the Bible is not JUST a collection of books. God's providence gave us the current Canon, not the church. God, not men decided the canon. This providence does not mean that church leaders were inspired in their selecting the canon, only that God had his eye on the scriptures the whole time and brought about His will to form the Bible we see today!
 
Ha, true Lysander, so it seems.

Stan, I don't really see where you're going with that... are you suggesting we can, or can't gain insight by personally striving to understand the Bible in context? I can give examples of concepts no English translation manages to convey accurately if it helps to clarify why I think this is important for Christians to do.
 
Roads said:
Ha, true Lysander, so it seems.

Stan, I don't really see where you're going with that... are you suggesting we can, or can't gain insight by personally striving to understand the Bible in context? I can give examples of concepts no English translation manages to convey accurately if it helps to clarify why I think this is important for Christians to do.
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Nope, understanding the context is important. I'm saying that context IS taken into account when it is translated. This type of hermeneutics is called Contextual Interpretation. https://bible.org/seriespage/contextual-method-biblical-interpretation
 
Stan said:
Nope, understanding the context is important. I'm saying that context IS taken into account when it is translated. This type of hermeneutics is called Contextual Interpretation. https://bible.org/seriespage/contextual-method-biblical-interpretation
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Okay, I'm still having trouble understanding the significance of your response from a practical point of view, so let me ask a question for clarification.

What's your opinion on, just as one example, Greek word studies? Are they useful, and something can be gained from them, or should we just be happy to read the English, and trust that the translators fully captured the concept conveyed by the Greek word in question?
 
Roads said:
Okay, I'm still having trouble understanding the significance of your response from a practical point of view, so let me ask a question for clarification.

What's your opinion on, just as one example, Greek word studies? Are they useful, and something can be gained from them, or should we just be happy to read the English, and trust that the translators fully captured the concept conveyed by the Greek word in question?
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Practically speaking, why investigate/study something that a credentialed scholar has already done?
My experience is they are mostly only useful when someone else tries to use the wrong connotation for a Greek word.
My experience is that many who KNOW how to use online tools will look for a connotation that does NOT fit the context of the scripture. Yes, it may be in Greek, but much more scholarly people than I have already done that work, so why would we not avail ourselves of their expertise, unless we are trying to teach or propagate a false teaching?
By example, has any Greek word study you've done, yielded results that made that scripture say something it didn't already say?
 
Stan said:
By example, has any Greek word study you've done, yielded results that made that scripture say something it didn't already say?
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I am eager to continue this discussion, but I think it's reached a point where it's no longer relevant to the topic of this particular forum. Would you mind if I made it a new topic in the forums, and we could pick it up from there?
 
Roads said:
I am eager to continue this discussion, but I think it's reached a point where it's no longer relevant to the topic of this particular forum. Would you mind if I made it a new topic in the forums, and we could pick it up from there?
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LOL...Please feel free to do whatever you wish, I'm not in charge of anything.
 
Roads said:
Major, I totally agree, I've had a lot of major insights by understanding the linguistic and historical context in areas of the Bible. Another thing that's helped me a lot is understanding ancient Hebrew genre. You mentioned the problems when you try to read a poem like it's a scientific text, and you're absolutely right: you have to understand the genre. The ancient Hebrews wrote in very specific, fairly rigid genres that we don't use anymore, so understanding those genres is yet another tool we have to give context to what we read in the Bible.

(On a side note, I think we may have had a bit of a hiccup in trying to understand each other's perspective on another issue, but you're speaking my language here, and I agree with everything you wrote, passionately! Thank you for the post.)
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It is always a blessing to communicate with a brother in Christ. We may not always agree with everything but as long as our hearts are right, we will always be right.
 
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