Judy W

I guess I am looking for a relationship with God like the one Abraham had....or Moses....or David......
They had no Bible....and yet....they were His dear friends. I want more. And I know it doesn't come from sitting in church....or performing works.....or having perfect love....
I want what was in the Garden....I want that kind of closeness.

Boanerges

You are in luck Judy that is just what Jesus came to give us!

PreciousMessage

Greetings,

An article of yesteryears by a preacher:

MANY people think that it is almost infidelity, or even sacrilege, not to celebrate the birthday of Christ, even though no man has the knowledge of the day or the month when it occurred. The Holy Spirit is silent on the subject, certainly for good reason. Many would ask, “Shall we not devote at least one day in the year to thinking of the miraculous birth of the Saviour?” We would reply, not one day only, but every day. Let us see how this may be.

The birth of Jesus was by the Holy Spirit. The angel said to Mary, “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that Holy Thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” Luke i. 35.

By that same Spirit’s power Christ dwells in the hearts of all who believe. The Apostle Paul prayed to God for us, “That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith.” Eph. iii. 16, 17. That is the only way that we can have real life, for Christ is our life. Col. i. 27. Christ in us is the hope of glory. Col. i. 27.

Now the birth of Christ is nothing to anyone in whom His birth is not repeated. Indeed, he in whom Christ’s life has not sprung up, does not know of a certainty that He was ever born, and that He was crucified and raised. These things are known only by faith, and faith brings the life of Christ into our mortal bodies. No one can certainly know anything about Christ’s birth, if he does not know Christ Himself; and we know Him only by His life. See John xvii. 8; 1 John i. 1-3; v. 20. The birth of Christ, therefore, can be known and celebrated only through the new birth.

But this is not accomplished once for all. That is to say, the new birth is not an event of one hour or one day, to be celebrated ever after looked back upon and celebrated. “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.” 1 John v. 1. Note that he is born while he is believing. The new birth is complete only as it is continually progressing.

To this end are the words of the Apostle Paul, in 2 Cor. iv. 10, 11, 16: “Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.” Here we have Christ formed within, the real life of Christ. Now read, “For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.”

He in whose heart Christ’s life is not daily renewed, cannot celebrate His birth, because he knows nothing about it. The birth of Christ is not a thing of memory, but of present experience. We commemorate it not by observing days, but by putting on the new man “which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him.”

End Article

blessings in Christ,
John

Jax

David and Abraham did have the Torah, or the OT,
and they studied it (albeit they didbt have a personal copy) but David especially speaks a lot about God's Word and how good it is and how the Law wont depart fro his mouth, so we know he was very familiar with it.

I think there are many many Christians that want more in their relationship with God, they are tired of going to church, they want to rise up and be the church.

Banarenth

Ah, see there is the problem. In the beginning, God made everything REALLY simple. I mean, how much more simple could it have been, 1 rule...only one. We broke it. So, later, we BEGGED Him to give us more rules, so He did. Then more, and more, and more. Not because He wanted us to have rules, but because we kept asking for more rules. The rules became so complex that NOBODY could live by them completely. Not because God is complex, but because we wanted Him to be. So, He sent His Son. And gave us two final rules, and if we can live by these two rules ONLY, we really don't need the other rules.

In the end, God IS love. It's man that seems to think that is too simple, and by being so simple, it's too hard, so they try to come up with things that we do, instead of concentrating on the only things we REALLY need to do. They say the Devil is in the details. If that's true, then God is in the simplicity.

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Judy W

In the end, God IS love. It's man that seems to think that is too simple, and by being so simple, it's too hard, so they try to come up with things that we do, instead of concentrating on the only things we REALLY need to do. They say the Devil is in the details. If that's true, then God is in the simplicity.

I respectfully disagree. You act as if it should be easy to understand Him. As if his personality is simplistic. He does have a personality and has emotions other than love. I am not talking about rules. I am not talking about missing God because of complicating Him. I am talking about knowing the deeper parts of God. He IS more than love. MUCH more. Isn't He? His ways are not our ways....His thoughts are not our thoughts. I want to know His thoughts.....they are not all about love. I believe we cannot know Him even after spending ETERNITY with Him because He is the Alpha and the Omega......you cannot plumb the depths of God. I believe that there are aspects of God to discover for eternity. And the discoveries will never end. His mercies are new every morning. He is NEW ever morning. I want to know Him. Does that mean He is not simplistic? No......but I believe He is far more complicated than the statement....God is Love. God is also a consuming fire...full of wrath....full of justice.....vengeance. There are those who think that a "loving" God would not exact vengeance. WRONG! He is sooooo much more than love.
I am a deep person......and I'm sure you are also. Well, in my opinion, God is deeper than either one of us. FAR deeper. Deeper than eternity. He has a personality. To say otherwise is to diminish Him.
Please do not presume that I am wrong in wanting to know more about God or that I am complicating Him and wanting more rules. You misunderstand me. I love God. He loves me and I am seeking a deeper relationship and a deeper understanding of Him. I am seeking His thoughts and His heart. I just don't believe He is "just" love.

Banarenth

It's harder to think simply than to think in complicated ways. Much harder, and yet, most truth is found in simplicity. The real misunderstanding happens because people think that simple means lesser. This isn't true at all.

If we try to find God, and we try to know God, we simply can't until we know Love. Perfect love. I'm not talking about romance, or even "true love". I'm talking about that perfect love that only God knows, and we must seek.

If we can't even fully understand this, then we can never understand anything else about God. And I think we can spend our entire lives and then some, and never fully understand this simple concept. Because we are looking for something more complicated, while we are no even remotely ready to grasp. For us to try to understand God, but not understand love, is to teach nuclear physics to a child who hasn't learned how to add 2+2.

Of course, this is my own understanding of God, and I've learned that the more complicated I try to make it, the farther I come from actually understanding Him. As I have been told in the past, I'm "intelligent" to the point of it being a handicap. That doesn't mean I'm "smart" or have some great insight, it simply means, I've learned too much to be socially practical (I'm awkward around people and can't keep my mouth shut ~_^). It's quite literally harder for me to think "simply" because I can scientifically grasp very complicated concepts, and try to apply them to God.

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Judy W

I think there are many many Christians that want more in their relationship with God, they are tired of going to church, they want to rise up and be the church.[/quote]

Yes, there are many people I know who have been fed up with the way "church" is going. They want something more. The drunks and the whores and the addicts will not walk into a "church". And the "suits" will not go to the gutter to show the love of God. Today's church is all about loving one another
(in the church or giving money for overseas missions)but don't dare ask them to deal with the unlovely in their neighborhoods....not unless the unlovely come to their church, which they won't. The unlovely do not feel worthy enough to walk in the doors much less to sit down and hear a sermon. They need to be met on their turf where they feel comfortable and they need to be met by people who are approachable.....not wearing $1500 dollar suits....or $500 dollar dresses. Not by people driving BMWs or limos or living on 2 million dollar ranches and flying jets.
I am reminded of when people were invited to the wedding feast and didn't show up. The people in the streets were invited then.....
IMO

Judy W

You are entitled to your way of thinking! I am also entitled to mine! I will continue to seek God. I am not complicating Him.....He IS complicated. Maybe we are different in our views in that.....
Maybe you see the forest for the trees and I cannot see the forest for the trees! Or vice versa.
Either way......I want to see His glory.

Banarenth

Count me in as one of them. I've stated many times, that Pagans did not draw me from the church, but the church itself drove me away. I had to fight HARD to come back, and at first, I really had to ignore a LOT of things that were going on in the church I was attending. But I've grown, and I've learned that not everyone is fake, and there IS real Christianity out there, it's there if you just look hard enough for it.

As a "still" self-proclaimed Christian Goth, I have made it a priority to find beauty in what others reject, joy in the unjoyful, love in the unlovable. If we can't love those that hate us, then how can we ever say we know Christ?

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