Faith or ignorance? - Page 6

PreciousMessage · 10-18-2007, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beloved

OK!

I'll admit it

I at one time felt like Goldenroad, when I was about his age... I was won over by His Word... WOW

HIS Word

There was nothing else at first... Nope! not nothing... I thought this christian thing was not for me. God had not chosen me to be His

.

But I was wrong... I'm glad He had enough patience with me.

That he didnot fail me or leave me ever, during those years. When i read this back then I sincerly prayed that I would not be one in which His word would not take root... And He did answer that prayer over the years.

Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
18Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

www.biblegateway.com

Amen, thanks for being candid.

John

Mopom · 10-18-2007, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenroad

Thankyou very much for posting this, if nothing else it has caused me to think a little deeper into my own situation. I'm not sure that i fit exactly into your #1 or 2 category. What drives me is a strong desire to live for something real, something besides myself. I don't think that i could have this desire for any other reason except that there is a possible gratification to this desire. Think about it, what is a humans deepest desire? or what is your deepest desire? is this something that can't be fulfilled? If you look at this from an evolutionary standpoint then this desire would have to be somewhat related to 'instinct' if you want to call it that. It would be something that has helped us as a species survive, and of course, it would serve some benefit and be able to be gratified. But if it can't be gratified in this way (and i don't see how it possible could) then this desire must have been engrained in us by some outside force (God) with a purpose. But, if God gave us this desire, then he would have had a reason for it and a possible gratification for this desire. So...the reason i have continued so long i have to believe has to do with desire for real purpose. This is also the reason for questioning.

Goldenrod... you remind me of me.... you and I are kind of going through the same thing mentally right now. The enemy is attacking our minds and trying to plant seed into our hearts that if we're not careful might even try to lead us a stray from God. O_o... What carolinasteve said really touched me. It made me think as well...

MLC · 10-20-2007, 07:39 AM

Well, I don't know of this applies to you but watchman posted this and this was very true in my life.

I firmly believe that the moment our hearts are emptied of pride and selfishness and ambition and self-seeking and every thing that is contrary to God's law, the Holy Ghost will come and fill every corner of our hearts; but if we are full of pride and conceit and ambition and self-seeking and pleasure and the world, there is no room for the Spirit of God; and I believe many a man is praying to God to fill him when he is full already with something else.
- Dwight Lyman Moody
(this was just how i was, full or pride and ambition)

I'm just a 17 year old guy who struggled a lot with atheism, though I knew it was illogical and even though it only lead to life being meaningless, i kept coming back to atheism. Why? My arrogance, but right now i won't get into that too much. The main thing is do you struggle with arrogance and pride at all like i did? Do you take any pride at all in questioning God, in an intellectual sense? Once again, i don't know you, but this is how it was for me. If it is true for you though, and your goals in life are to bring honor to yourself, and glory, and to be great in anyway, then your heart is in the wrong place. God will not honor that in any way whatsoever. Ask God to strike down the humility in you by any means, even if it seems to negatively affect you at first, but do your part by FASTING, even if arrogance isn't your problem. I remember the first time I truly fasted, (wasn't too long ago...) and how much God changed me in just one day. Before that, i would "fast" when my parents told me, but i would really just sit there and maybe pray for 10 minutes and read the bible for fifteen. I wouldn't eat but I would distract myself with the tv or computer. Do a real fast, give the entire day to God (if not more), and nothing else. No food or water, no tv, comp, radio, and wake up early, go to bed late, read the Bible or pray, or read christian writings CONSTANTLY. Literally nothing else for the entire day, other than maybe contact with your family

. Get on your knees and pray, show God your humility and truly be humble in your heart. You are no better than any other human on earth. Show what you are willing to give to God and ask God to show himself to you. If you are humble in your heart, and wish to truly better yourself and want to seek God, he will show himself to you. In a short amount of time, i went from being like you, and constantly doubting christianity, and just wanting a relationship with God, and for God to show himself to me, and to prove his existence, (and i would also try to prove his existence logically, and i would succeed in my mind, but he didn't honor that, remember, that is not faith!), to God actually doing those things, and now i know Jesus is Christ. I would say more but it is late by me, i may post more later.

Beloved · 10-20-2007, 07:46 AM

This came to mind... though it appears Goldenroad has not visited recently...

Genesis 2:7
Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Genesis 2:6-8 (in Context) Genesis 2 (Whole Chapter)

John 20:22
And when Jesus the Christ had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
John 20:21-23 (in Context) John 20 (Whole Chapter)

wooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

: amen:

Nathi · 10-20-2007, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLC

Well, I don't know of this applies to you but watchman posted this and this was very true in my life.

I firmly believe that the moment our hearts are emptied of pride and selfishness and ambition and self-seeking and every thing that is contrary to God's law, the Holy Ghost will come and fill every corner of our hearts; but if we are full of pride and conceit and ambition and self-seeking and pleasure and the world, there is no room for the Spirit of God; and I believe many a man is praying to God to fill him when he is full already with something else.
- Dwight Lyman Moody
(this was just how i was, full or pride and ambition)

I'm just a 17 year old guy who struggled a lot with atheism, though I knew it was illogical and even though it only lead to life being meaningless, i kept coming back to atheism. Why? My arrogance, but right now i won't get into that too much. The main thing is do you struggle with arrogance and pride at all like i did? Do you take any pride at all in questioning God, in an intellectual sense? Once again, i don't know you, but this is how it was for me. If it is true for you though, and your goals in life are to bring honor to yourself, and glory, and to be great in anyway, then your heart is in the wrong place. God will not honor that in any way whatsoever. Ask God to strike down the humility in you by any means, even if it seems to negatively affect you at first, but do your part by FASTING, even if arrogance isn't your problem. I remember the first time I truly fasted, (wasn't too long ago...) and how much God changed me in just one day. Before that, i would "fast" when my parents told me, but i would really just sit there and maybe pray for 10 minutes and read the bible for fifteen. I wouldn't eat but I would distract myself with the tv or computer. Do a real fast, give the entire day to God (if not more), and nothing else. No food or water, no tv, comp, radio, and wake up early, go to bed late, read the Bible or pray, or read christian writings CONSTANTLY. Literally nothing else for the entire day, other than maybe contact with your family

. Get on your knees and pray, show God your humility and truly be humble in your heart. You are no better than any other human on earth. Show what you are willing to give to God and ask God to show himself to you. If you are humble in your heart, and wish to truly better yourself and want to seek God, he will show himself to you. In a short amount of time, i went from being like you, and constantly doubting christianity, and just wanting a relationship with God, and for God to show himself to me, and to prove his existence, (and i would also try to prove his existence logically, and i would succeed in my mind, but he didn't honor that, remember, that is not faith!), to God actually doing those things, and now i know Jesus is Christ. I would say more but it is late by me, i may post more later.

God bless you MLC, keep on that Route God is gonna do great things in yoou......keep on seeking Him.........

Brother Nathi

Dusty · 10-20-2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

I firmly believe that the moment our hearts are emptied of pride and selfishness and ambition and self-seeking and every thing that is contrary to God's law, the Holy Ghost will come and fill every corner of our hearts; but if we are full of pride and conceit and ambition and self-seeking and pleasure and the world, there is no room for the Spirit of God; and I believe many a man is praying to God to fill him when he is full already with something else.
- Dwight Lyman Moody

Great quote MLC. It is so good to see a young person seeking the heart of God. Thankyou for sharing and continue to follow Jesus and God is going to do great things in your life. God richly Bless you and welcome to the forum.

Dusty · 10-20-2007, 05:11 PM

Hey .... Where's Goldenroad ? There are so many good posts here.

PreciousMessage · 10-20-2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLC

Well, I don't know of this applies to you but watchman posted this and this was very true in my life.

I firmly believe that t but if we are full of pride and conceit and ambition and self-seeking and pleasure and the world, there is no room for the Spirit of God; and I believe many a man is praying to God to fill him when he is full already with something else.
- Dwight Lyman Moody
(this was just how i was, full or pride and ambition)

I'm just a 17 year old guy who struggled a lot with atheism, though I knew it was illogical and even though it only lead to life being meaningless, i kept coming back to atheism. Why? My arrogance, but right now i won't get into that too much. The main thing is do you struggle with arrogance and pride at all like i did? Do you take any pride at all in questioning God, in an intellectual sense? Once again, i don't know you, but this is how it was for me. If it is true for you though, and your goals in life are to bring honor to yourself, and glory, and to be great in anyway, then your heart is in the wrong place. God will not honor that in any way whatsoever. Ask God to strike down the humility in you by any means, even if it seems to negatively affect you at first, but do your part by FASTING, even if arrogance isn't your problem. I remember the first time I truly fasted, (wasn't too long ago...) and how much God changed me in just one day. Before that, i would "fast" when my parents told me, but i would really just sit there and maybe pray for 10 minutes and read the bible for fifteen. I wouldn't eat but I would distract myself with the tv or computer. Do a real fast, give the entire day to God (if not more), and nothing else. No food or water, no tv, comp, radio, and wake up early, go to bed late, read the Bible or pray, or read christian writings CONSTANTLY. Literally nothing else for the entire day, other than maybe contact with your family

. Get on your knees and pray, show God your humility and truly be humble in your heart. You are no better than any other human on earth. Show what you are willing to give to God and ask God to show himself to you. If you are humble in your heart, and wish to truly better yourself and want to seek God, he will show himself to you. In a short amount of time, i went from being like you, and constantly doubting christianity, and just wanting a relationship with God, and for God to show himself to me, and to prove his existence, (and i would also try to prove his existence logically, and i would succeed in my mind, but he didn't honor that, remember, that is not faith!), to God actually doing those things, and now i know Jesus is Christ. I would say more but it is late by me, i may post more later.

Hi MLC,

Thanks for the testimony. May God continue to bless you. It's always refreshing to hear the testimony of young people.

I will make one commment. I'm not sure what Moody means, in a deep way, when he states: the moment our hearts are emptied of pride and selfishness and ambition and self-seeking and every thing that is contrary to God's law, the Holy Ghost will come and fill every corner of our hearts;"

As long as we recognize, especially for the despondent soul, that every vestige of pride and selfishness does not have to be gone for the Holy Spirit to come and reside in the heart.

There is no validity that we must be pure and holy in order that God will dwell with us. As a matter of truth, the faith of Jesus is that God must dwell with us, and in us, in order that we shall be holy or pure at all.

It is the Holy Spirit's work to cleanse our souls. We do not start with the process and let the Holy Spirit finish it.

I am not saying for one moment that "Moody" did not understand this (only know of his name), but that I wanted to clarify this so we do not get the idea that the Holy Spirit does not reside with us, UNTIL we are completely emptied of self.

"...Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His" (Rom. 8:9).

blessings in Christ,
John

MLC · 10-20-2007, 08:42 PM

Well I can't be exactly sure of what he meant, but what i got from it, which was very true in my life, was that you may constantly be asking God to show himself to you and so on like i said in my prior post; and also kind of like how goldenroad sounds, but if you have a lot of ambition or pride in you, and you want to bring more glory to yourself, rather than God, than he will not honor your request since your heart isn't in the right place, (and you are not putting much faith in him) but when you get rid of the pride and humble yourself, put faith in him, and ask for repentence, than he will. When i did that, i experienced being filled with the holy spirit to an extent i had never experienced, and it was the answer to what i had been asking God to do for a long time, but had up to this point not done. The reason I believe is because even though the holy spirit was in me, i gave so much room in my heart to myself, that there wasn't too much for God. When i made room for God though, he did as you said, and filled me up.

PreciousMessage · 10-20-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLC

but when you get rid of the pride and humble yourself, put faith in him, and ask for repentence, than he will.

Hi MLC,

Thanks for responding and believe I understand what you're intending to say. In a true sense, faith is inseparable from repentance and transformation of character. Firstly, God’s love is always extended to the sinner in His gift of repentance—“… the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance” (Rom. 2:4). It is never by conditions that we receive salvation. Now if we come to Christ, then what is the condition? Living faith of course, “The just shall live by faith.” We simply lay hold of the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Savior.

Self cannot rid self of pride, as you know. Repentance, in the true sense of the meaning, is not primarily getting rid of pride and selfishness. Repentance is a change of mind. Changing it how? “Repent and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15). These are really synchronous with each other. Repentance is really turning our eyes towards the cross. What happens then? When the sinner comes and views Christ elevated upon the cross of Calvary, which God impresses upon the mind, there is a love beyond anything that is imagine. When a person beholds that cross, they recognize being a sinner. He or she recognizes that the law has been broken, for at the cross is “judgment and mercy.” What then? The person is exercising faith towards God, and Christ Jesus is speaking pardon to the transgressor.

As the sinner continual beholds the love of God the pride and selfishness is removed because we are allowing the Holy Spirit to work in us. We really never do the work, it is Christ working IN US. Our part is to believe or to have faith. Faith and believing really are the same meaning, both come from the Greek word, pistis.

The universal popular text, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotton Son, that whoever believes [has faith] in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). This text has a great meaning, more than simply a mere "mental" assent to God. The word "believe" means something in the continuous, which is "having faith." It is a heartfelt genuine love, "For with the heart one believes unto righteousness" (Rom. 10:10). ... So when parents talk there children at a very early age to be baptized, is it really that the child has a sincere heartfelt love for God? Let's be careful not to simply go through some ritualistic form so we make sure "we" are satisfied our child will go to heaven. God knows the heart of the child, He will not send him or her to hell because they have not been baptized yet.

Blessings in Christ,
John

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