Boanerges

Nice posting Ken !

Dusty

I would say to you that it is a good thing that you are searching but on the other hand are you searching in the right places. You see if you have a true relationship with the Saviour, you will not need to search but will grow in His love and mercy. If you submit your life to Him, ask Him to take control of your life, He will do that. Then and only then will you find true peace and happiness. He is the way the truth and the life.

God bless you goldenrod. I will be praying for you. You are making a simple step and act of faith difficult and it really isn't.

__________________

Trials prove a Christian

Love confirms a Christian

But death crowns a Christian

goldenroad

I wish it were that simple

epistemaniac

hi again

well no offence, but this post seems to contradict itself. First you say (A) that the evidence points towards some "immutable force" and that this fact is "undeniable", ie that you "can't deny that the evidence for a god or, to put it broadly, some external and immutable force, is undeniable"

"But the question i have to ask myself is 'is it logical to continue to follow a belief that has (B) not in any discernable way revealed the truth of itself to me in a personally believable way?'

If you say that you believe (A) then in fact (B) is impossible; for in what other way can something be utterly true to you then that this thing be revealed to you in a discernible believable way? If (A) is true, but (B) is also true, then on what grounds do you believe (A)?

Secondly, it sounds like you have an intellectual assent that there has to be a Creator for various reasons, and I applaud you for looking hard enough at these questions to have arrived at the very reasonable and logical position that there must be a "something" out there, but whatever this "something" is has not been "felt" by you in any way that is deeper than intellectual assent.... it is the subjective that you are looking for.... well the good news is that you do not, as so many people, have the cart before the horse.... you have first of all realized that God is, instead of some people who want God to write in the clouds their name and to tell them He exists in a deep powerful voice from the heavens. You have the objective truth, now you need and want the subjective backing of that truth. Excellent. But here, the thing is, God is not a "tame God" doing just what we ask all the time.... and God has created us in many ways.... or some of us, the subjective is all there is, others are too objective.... you seem to be swayed by the objective and I can't think of any better advice or poin6 made in this regard when Jesus was telling everyone that He was the only way to the Father.... in Jn 6:65.... as a result of thid "hard saying" many disciples left... when Jesus asked the disciples if they were going to leave too Peter said these profound words: "Lord, to whomelse can we go? You have the words of life." And so for you, the word is patiences, you know God is there, now you have to continue to put yourself into positions where God is likely to be personally "felt" by you... but remember that you have acknowledged that a creator is there... it is true... now nothing can change that.... just like any universal truth, it doesn't matter if anyone believes it. accepts it, "feels" it or whatever.... 2 plus 2 is 4 regardless if some person in some remote jungle somewhere denies it... and that God is, is true as well, for the same reasons.... so get involved in Bible study, go to different churches' worship services, find one that seems to move you in subjective ways.... for some people lots of activity... people clapping their hands, yelling Amen! etc is all too distracting and they do not experience God that way, they need more low key worship services.... but keep searching and you will find the inner testimony you desire.... esp since the outer (relatively speaking) truths are already in place...

blessings,
Ken

carolinasteve

One question. Are you wondering if Christianity is true for all people, and not you, or, and not to simplify this to be patronizing to you, are you feeling left out? I would have to say, not knowing your Christian history(how you were taught growing up and how you currently practice and persue your relationship with Christ) it is hard to answer why you feel you do not have a relationship with Christ, and then we also have to assume to know God's purpose for you, which none of us could ever know exactly. Every person's experience with Christ is unique to themselves. While we may share some similar experiences, which would be consistant with scripture, every relationship with Christ is different because our indivdual purpose is different.

If you have no doubt that other Christians have a very real relationship with Christ, than in your mind Christ has revealed His truth, only not to you in a presonal relationship. Wouldn't turning away from truth, simply because it doesn't seem to benefit you or reward you in the manner you desire it, to be illogical? Wouldn't that be similar to rejecting mathimatical truth because it has no practical use or effect on your life?
I feel for you. You still desire what alot of people would have rejected along time ago. Is it possible, that the fact that you still desire the relationship with Christ, that the Holy Spirit is closer to you thatn you think? Could it be possible, in any way shape or form, that despite your studies, your investigation, that their is still something within you, that you may not even be aware of, that is creating a border between you and a spirit filled life? Are you able to just let go and believe? Not analyze,not scrutinize, and just say,Jesus, I know you are real, and I am willing to go on faith that you will live in me? LIke I said, not knowing what steps as far as introspection and suplication you have taken, it is hard to speculate what is happening, but the simple fact that you are asking your questions, and hoping for an answer that will enable you to fellowship with Christ on a personal level, gives me hope that you will find what you seek. My prayers are with you Brother.
.

Beloved

I'm trying to understand.

What exactly are your beliefs?

We are willing to help you, but you should be more specific.

You also sound depressed to me. I use to talk like that. I've been there, done that

There is a light at the end of the dark tunnel you're in...

For me it worked this way... The more you obey the Word you know, and the more you empty yourself, the more the Holy Spirit fills you up.

So you have to be Born again through repenting of the sins you know about, and washing by water of the Word.

God speaks to all His children though, in various ways.

you will recieve the earphones by obeying the Truth you know.

I think you are down and we should all pray for you,

__________________
Shalom

( SHALOM says: Completeness, wholeness, health, peace, welfare, safety soundness, tranquility, prosperity, perfectness, fullness, rest, harmony, the absence of agitation or discord. )

Beloved
1 Corinthians 14:1 Let Love be your highest goal.

Boanerges

Goldenroad I must ask you this- are you born again? Without this you cannot see, perceive or participate in the kingdom of God. It is quite possible to spend your whole life in church and never know the Lord.
The manifest presence of God in my life is more real than the air I breath- I have witnessed miracles- I have seen the glory of God come down so strong that no man could stand- and yet the greatest thing is the way He is there when I wake, walk and journey throguh each step of my life. There is a measurable difference in every life He touches, don't let the cynics of this worls rob you of the most precious gift of all- the love fo God'

Watchman

You are lacking the presense of th Holy Spirit goldenroad. I pray that God may enlighten you and give you new eyes to see.

I firmly believe that the moment our hearts are emptied of pride and selfishness and ambition and self-seeking and every thing that is contrary to God's law, the Holy Ghost will come and fill every corner of our hearts; but if we are full of pride and conceit and ambition and self-seeking and pleasure and the world, there is no room for the Spirit of God; and I believe many a man is praying to God to fill him when he is full already with something else.
- Dwight Lyman Moody

Azarias

This is the truth!

Boanerges

After reading this thread it occurs to me God has given many people here a burden to pray for you goldenroad !