Effervescence

There was a discussion on another Christian forum earlier today about the 'Real ID' cards, and whether or not it was a step in the direction of "the Mark". I was curious what the members here thought about it.

Here's the Wikipedia article about it:
REAL ID Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Personally, the whole thing freaks me out, because I see it being a very obvious step in that direction, I'm just glad to see so many states opposing it.

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Jamie.

Boanerges

as an American I will pass on any unecessary intrusion on my privacy and my freedom-

adonaicole

I think that they are taking baby steps leading up to the mark of the beast. Social security numbers are one, but just a step, adding ss# to Drivers licenses (which is illegal by the way) is two, real ID is another step. Just don't take that final step and let them plant a chip in your arm.

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Love one another, for that is pure, undefiled religion.

Don

violet

Effervescence

I know, I was devistated when they first started planting the chips in pets, and then in people for the 'medical information'. I guess it's just shocking for it all to really be happening, know what I mean?

What really upsets me is how many Christians think nothing of the ID card, and don't see it as anything but a simple means of identification.

I've felt for a long time that the whole 'identity theft epidemic' would be the catalyst in the creation of an implant leading to, if not the Mark. That an implant would be billed as the 'only reliable means of identification and protection against identity theft."

Here we are already on the cusp of being issued identification that we will be required to have if we want to drive, travel by air or train, or obtain employment, the next 'logical' step would be to buy or sell goods...

It's exciting and scary at the same time.

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Jamie.

Jasher

I guess it is just another intrusion by Big Brother. It may be a necessary evil because of all the crime and violence in this country. We are going to have to lose some more of our freedoms in order to assist the government in their control of crime.

Here in Ohio a state worker had a laptop stolen from his car in Columbus with about 230,000 names, addresses, and SS numbers in it. They don't even seem to make much effort to keep all this information in secure custody.

As far as Theology is concerned I don't worry about this because it is all symbolic and in the past in my opinion. Let me explain...

Rev. 17:9-11 (NASB)
"Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, [10] and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. [11] "And the beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

The first verse is easy and simple – Rome was built on seven hills. An indirect reference to the beast which was Rome. A chart of these Kings from that historical period is...

1. Tiberius - fallen 1.

2. Caligula - fallen 2.

3. Claudius - fallen 3.

4. Nero - one who was, is not, and is to come for a little, who also was an eighth, but was of the seven, making Nero both one of the seven and the eighth.

5. Vespasian – fallen 4.

6.Titus - fallen 5.

7.Domitian - the one who is, Nero reincarnated, therefore an eighth – belonging to the seven, yet symbolically having Nero reincarnated in him making Domitian both a seventh and an eighth.

The historical information you must know to understand this chart is the fact that it was a very common belief among the Romans in that day that Nero was expected to be reincarnated. The Nero redivivus or resurrection myth was widely and continually perpetuated for a period of over twenty years.

William Durant said that Domitian ..."began like Gabriel and ended like Lucifer." Domitian reigned from AD 81-96. Something happened to change Domitians character in the year AD 86 after an attempted take over by Saturninus. Durant says that this was the turning point between his better and worse selves. He had always been coldly severe, but now he slipped into cruelty. He then filled the Capitol with statues of himself, announced the divinity of his father, brother, wife and sisters as well as himself. Set up a new order of priests to attend to the worship of these new deities and required officials to speak of him in their documents, as Dominus et Deus Noster – our Lord and God. This caused a general rebellion in the empire and was especially problematic to the Christians. It was in AD 93 that Domitian executed some Christians for refusing to offer sacrifice before his image. This was the beginning of the "incarnation" of Nero. Something that God foresaw and warned the early Christians about in the book of Revelation. John was already in exile by 93AD.

Rome had a practice of dealing with the leadership first which could mean that John was the first to be dealt with in Asia Minor possibly in 92 maybe as late as 93. By the way Asia Minor had the highest concentration of Christians in the first Century (Eerdmans History) The interpretation given here also ties the writing of the book to the time of Dometian and not the earlier date of Revelation – but this is an issue that I have not yet totally resolved. Now we are at the subject of your post.

Rev. 13:18 (NASB)
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

1. It's something that you have to "Calculate" and it was common in that day to use numbers to represent letters of the alphabet. Not in our day.

2. It is the number of "A" man – singular according to translations.

3. The calculated (added) numbers of his name totals 666.

Fr. Patrick J. Sena says that the Hebrew totals for Nero Caesar add up to 666 – but it is spelled Neron in Hebrew and not in the Latin used by the Romans which only uses one "N". Remember the writer John thought in Hebrew and Aramaic and translated to Greek in his writing. Some ancient manuscripts use 616 because they did not include the final Hebrew N of Neron (50) in their translation.

So 666 indicates "Nero" who is now dead in the suggested time line. But the scripture says that the seventh now is, "Domitian" and the eighth is yet to come. It is saying that Domitian is on the throne, but his time of cruelty toward the Christians had not yet taken place and didn’t until 86 when he became reincarnated with the "spirit" of Nero. He then became the eighth. The end of Rev 17:11 says... and he goes to destruction. This is a Prophesy of the demise of Domitian in 96AD, who was assinated. One would have to be very careful of making such statements under occupation. This of course is the reason for using apocalyptic language to encode the message.

And of course there is also the general understanding that six is the number of man and triple six means total depravity. But this given interpretation addresses every word of the Prophesy within the context of the historical record.

Theophilus

Not just the U.S. Government, but all governments. Not just the governments, but the finacial institutions, businesses, medical, and religous organizations as well.
Not only that, but the internet and technology are carrying the world in that direction with advancements coming daily now.

Credit cards, reward cards, debit cards social security, drivers licience/ IDs, medical records, vehicle registration and advancing technology, surviellance and security systems. All connected to data banks which can be coalated and combined with todays technology and linked to a single identity chip placed under the skin (possibly without the person even knowing).
It is no longer a paranoids nighmare or some hippies deluded cry about big brother, but a reality.

It's no longer baby steps but a march with each step coming faster than the last.

The mark is coming together as we speak. The chip is just the tip of the iceburg (so to speak) and it is already available for human implantation.


First one has to know it's happening. And second "passing" in many cases already has it's conciquences.

It is already so prolific and ingrained in our culture that in order to function anywhere in the world today one must accept a great deal of it.

Sure, some of it is voluntary and or avoidable but a lot of it isn't and what is today will not be in the future.

Speaking of the future. Yea we are probably safe from the mark, But what about our children?
or our childrens children?? or their children???
How many generations away is it????

If we don't speak now. If we don't tell them, teach them, show them who in this world is going to????
The ungodly world, thats who the lost, the deceiver and his disciples, thats who.
I don't have to tell any one in here what the result of that is.
Any doubts read the bible.



2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.


Be not deceived ,brothers and sisters. WE are in the last days

What we do today will make the differance not only for ourselves but for our children and their children.

Sincerely
Cliff

JohnathanAmber

Personally, I don't see a big problem... the reason is...

Well, until the Rapture, we really don't ahve anything to worrry about. Just think for a moment... where in the Bible does it talk about the Mark of the Beast... in Revelation AFTER the Rapture. Therefore, since the rapture has not happened, yes it is a step in the direction but not of, as of yet, the Mark.

Does it say anywhere else in the Bible abot stepping stone to the Mark being of Satan? If so, please post. I have not found anything of the like anywhere except in Revelation.

Yes new ID's and identification methods will come about in the near future, RFID was a big one, but again it is not yet of the devil just things leading up to that time. And there is nothign we can do about it, the Bible has to take place, otherwise we would be calling God a liar. Not calling ANYONE a liar, BTW.

God bless,
Johnathan

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KitsapGirl

Yes, a step toward the mark...

shocked, worried, concerned, alarmed? No.

Will I get one...If I must.

Why? Because it's not the mark...just a step toward it.

When they start putting these things on the back of our hands, or forehead, I'll resist.

I believe we won't be here for that though.

These things must happen. God said they would. I want to go home to Him...so why would I wish to hinder His return?

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Whirlwind

Beautiful, Kitsap Girl! I like that thinking.

What if one of us in this forum invented a time machine? And because we thought it was the right thing to do, we took an army with machine guns back in time to prevent Christ from being crucified? We might do it out of love for our Savior...but in the end, we would be trying to hinder what God has already said would happen and why. Some things are just meant to take place.

We can fight these things and try to prevent them from happening, but in the end--these are things that need to happen, things that God has already said must happen. I myself would never knowingly allow anybody to put a mark on my body...but if the government forces a number on me for the sake of identification, then so be it.

Let the mark of the beast come! I know which side I'm on, and I know how this is all going to end and what we're in store for. I have nothing to fear.

God bless.