Boanerges

I have been doing alot of research on this subject- there seem to be as many opinions on this as Baskin Robins has flavours of ice cream-Many commentairies subcribe to this basic theory as is presented below- what most seem to agree is that God is the author of punishment for sin but not sin itself- there also seems to be a prevalent theme amoungst biblical and historical scholars which states that this statement made to King Cyrus was a direct confrontation to his pagan beliefs that good and evil were opposing dieties and was indeed to demonstrate that there was one ONE TRUE GOD!

Scoffields commentairies:Isa 45:7 - create evil Hebrew, "ra" translated "sorrow," "wretchedness," "adversity," "afflictions," "calamities," but never translated sin. God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness, etc, to be the sure fruits of sin.

Matthew Henry's commentairies:Isa 45:5-10 - God here asserts his sole and sovereign dominion, as that which he designed to prove and manifest to the world in all the great things he did for Cyrus and by him. Observe,I. How this doctrine is here laid down concerning the sovereignty of the great Jehovah, in two things: - 1. That he is God alone, and there is no God besides him. This is here inculcated as a fundamental truth, which, if it were firmly believed, would abolish idolatry out of the world. With what an awful, commanding, air of majesty and authority, bidding defiance, as it were, to all pretenders, does the great God here proclaim it to the world: I am the Lord, I the Lord, Jehovah, and there is none else,

Jamesson, Fausset and Browns commentairies:create evil — not moral evil (Jam_1:13), but in contrast to “peace” in the parallel clause, war, disaster (compare Psa_65:7; Amo_3:6).John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible:I make peace, and create evil; peace between God and men is made by Christ, who is God over all; spiritual peace of conscience comes from God, through Christ, by the Spirit; eternal glory and happiness is of God, which saints enter into at death; peace among the saints themselves here, and with the men of the world; peace in churches, and in the world, God is the author of, even of all prosperity of every kind, which this word includes: "evil" is also from him; not the evil of sin; this is not to be found among the creatures God made; this is of men, though suffered by the Lord, and overruled by him for good: but the evil of punishment for sin, God's sore judgments, famine, pestilence, evil beasts, and the sword, or war, which latter may more especially be intended, as it is opposed to peace; this usually is the effect of sin; may be sometimes lawfully engaged in; whether on a good or bad foundation is permitted by God; moreover, all afflictions, adversities, and calamities, come under this name, and are of God; see Job_2:10, I the Lord do all these things; and therefore must be the true God, and the one and only one. Kimchi, from Saadiah Gaon, observes, that this is said against those that assert two gods, the one good, and the other evil; whereas the Lord is the Maker of good and evil, and therefore must be above all; and it is worthy of observation, that the Persian Magi, before Zoroastres (m), held two first causes, the one light, or the good god, the author of all good; and the other darkness, or the evil god, the author of all evil; the one they called Oromazes, the other Arimanius; and, as Dr. Prideaux (n) observes, "these words are directed to Cyrus king of Persia, and must be understood as spoken in reference to the Persian sect of the Magians; who then held light and darkness, or good and evil, to be the supreme Beings, without acknowledging the great God as superior to both;'' and which these words show; for Zoroastres, who reformed them in this first principle of their religion, was after Isaiah's time. (m) Vid. Pocock. Specimen Arab. Hist. p. 147, 148. (n) Connexion, part 1. p. 215.

Albert Barnes n Notes on the Bible:
And create evil - The parallelism here shows that this is not to be understood in the sense of all evil, but of that which is the opposite of peace and prosperity. That is, God directs judgments, disappointments, trials, and calamities; he has power to suffer the mad passions of people to rage, and to afflict nations with war; he presides over adverse as well as prosperous events. The passage does not prove that God is the author of moral evil, or sin, and such a sentiment is abhorrent to the general strain of the Bible, and to all just views of the character of a holy God.

violet

Boanerges

No doubt sister !

Mary17

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but didn't us humans bring evil into the world? You know when Adam and Eve first sinned?

~A Martial Artist is free spirited but not ignorant~

Boanerges

Actually it existed at least as early as satans rebellion and he was hanging out in the garden - then there was that pesky tree- the one with the " fruit of the knowledge of good and evil" - there must have been evil to have a opportunity to have the capacity to know it-

Mary17

Ah, I see. But I suppose everything happens for a reason, it's all part of God's great plan.

~War is just senseless in general. But there will always be war. That is the reality of it. Though war isn't right, it is necessary to reach a goal~

Boanerges

Amen " behold the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" - God had a plan even before we fell!

epistemaniac

hey guys

Larry, several of your posts reminded me of this Caedmon's Call sog called "Table for Two"... though the song starts out with "small talk" it ends with talking about the very same concept of God's sovereignty that has popped up a couple of times in this thread...

"Danny and I
Spent anther late night over pancakes
we talked about soccer
And how every man's just the same
We made speculation
On the who's and the when's of our futures
And how everyone's lonely
But still we just couldn't complain

And how we just hate being alone
Could I have missed my only chance
And now I'm just wasting my time
By lookin' around

But you know I know better
I'm not gonna worry about nothing
Cause if the birds and the flowers survive
Then I'll make it okay.
and given a chance and a rock
see which one breaks a window
and see which one keeps me up all night and into the day.

Because I'm so scared of being alone
That I forget what house i live in
and it's not my job to wait by the phone
For her to call

this day's been crazy
But everything's happened on schedule
from the rain and the cold
To the drink that I spilled on my shirt
'Cause You knew how You'd save me
before I fell dead in the garden
And You knew this day
long before You made me outta dirt.

And You know the plans that You have for me
And You can't plan the end and not plan the means
And so I suppose I just need some peace,
Just to get me to sleep.

blessings,
Ken

the_apostle_john

I wrote an article about this (read the full thing here), but watered down, the answer is quite easy to understand.

Humans are imperfect, so to establish a transcendent, perfect set of morality, one must be perfect. Without God, there is no good and evil because good and evil are relative.

__________________
http://www.apologetiks.com

seekinghokmah

If I may take a stab at this interesting and important subject?

In the beginning God….period. Only God exists by necessity, all else including evil depends completely on God in order to exist at all. God is one (Duet 6:4) in the absolute sense, complete and undifferentiated…He has no attributes, parts or aspects; He is one. He is nothing (no-thing) in that He is not a “thing�…but not an empty nothing, rather the complete opposite. He is complete fullness and perfection beyond all capacity or comprehension.
In order for anything other than Himself to exist even in potential He had to withdraw from or conceal Himself from a “space� and bring forth something (some-thing not entirely Himself)…something from nothing.

Good has independent existence since good is simply complete conformity with His nature. God IS good so good is not dependant on God to exist…except for good to exist outside of Himself (residing in created beings that are not themselves God).
Evil does NOT have independent existence since it is merely a reaction or active rejection of that nature…but even evil cannot exist unless God wills it to be so. Therefore God does create evil, or rather the potential for evil to exist…though He does not directly commit actions of evil. He cannot in fact do so since evil is contrary to his nature.

If all of created existence apart from God chose to submit completely to God and conform to His nature, evil would cease to exist. The best defense against evil then, is to pursue its opposite.

Evil exists because God creates us and we choose to perpetuate evil…die to self and become more like God and evil is directly diminished in the entirety of creation. This is why no sin is small or insignificant, and also why evil can never conquer God. God is never out of control, everything is completely within His direct control…He is beyond what petty actions can be actuated by His completely dependant created beings. God is good and He gives only good…all is for our benefit, especially our very existence since only this existence affords us the opportunity to know Him at all.

It is a paradox, but even evil is in essence a created thing in that it exists only so long as God chooses to perpetuate the existence of beings that are separate and distinct from Himself, and subsequently those beings choose to perpetuate evil by exercising free will in opposition to His perfection.

In answer to why evil is allowed to exist; without it we could not choose to know God. Something can only be understood from its opposite; if black did not exist we would never perceive white since all would be white…there would be nothing else but white and we would be effectively blind. Who would turn on a flashlight on a sunny day? You’d never even know it was on.
If we were created in perfect union with God through no effort on our part it would have no perceived value to us since we would have nothing to measure it against. If, however, we attain a relationship with God by choosing to accept Him of our own free will, and even struggle to overcome great obstacles in order to reach Him, how much sweeter the final state?
In essence God deliberately conceals Himself from us specifically so that we will turn and seek Him out…like a cosmic game of hide and seek. The reward is beyond measure.

It has been said that there is no pleasure in this world, only lesser degrees of suffering. If a person lived 100 years in this world in absolute ecstasy it could not compare to one millionth of a second in the world to come.
…so seek and you shall find.

__________________
Good questions, when answered, innevitably lead to better ones. The light is in the search, and the search itself is the destination.