Boanerges

Padelford

Woohoo!

Everson

Hey, Padelford, I read that post, congradulations.

This SCOTUS ruling was good, about time for some positive news. Here's a link to the actual decision, I just happened to have had it opened:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/05-380.ZO.html

That's even rather graphic to read. At least this is finally a step in the right direction.

WasLost

This decision is, of course, great news.

However, I always think about two scenarios when the topic of abortion comes up. If I was a woman, and I was raped and became pregnant, I can't imagine what it would be like to carry that child and raise it. It must take extreme selflessness...unimaginable. Furthermore, in instances of incest, how traumatic must it be to carry the child of a close relative who may have even rapedo her as well?

I don't condone abortion at all, but these two scenarios always make me stop and shudder. Can anyone speak to this?

WasLost

epistemaniac

you are right waslost... terrible situations... what I always like to keep in mind that firstly, the baby is a human being.... its not his or her fault how it is that they were conceived, so dying due to the circumstances surrounding their birth does not seem proper at all..... outside of these circumstances..... if we want to rationalize and justify the death of children because we are not happy with the circumstances of their birth, we could "do away" with, perhaps try and justify the death of many children, maybe the woman forgot to take her birth control, maybe a condom was defective, whatever the reason, the failure in these areas does not seem to justify killing someone.....

secondly, while carrying the baby would serve as a constant reminder to the woman as to the terrible circumstances surrounding the conception of the child, however, for the sake of the child's life, which is innocent and the reasons behind their being conceived is not, again, their fault, the mother should endure it the (relatively speaking short period of time, as opposed to the entire life of a human being once they are born) so that the least they can do is give the child to parents who would dearly love to adopt a child given the problems of fertilization that many couples (equally terribly, in albeit in different way) have to face...

so the terrible sin of rape or incest can be equaled out, to some extent anyway, by giving life to a child who does not deserve to die because of the way they were conceived, and then give the responsibility AND great joy of raising this child to a couple who does not "deserve" to be infertile.....

blessings,
Ken

epistemaniac

here are a couple of songs I like that speak out against abortion... the first one is called "Little Ones and it is by the world renowned Christian guitarist Phil Keaggy:

Who will speak up for the little ones?
Helpless and half-abandoned.
They've got the right to choose life
They don't want to lose,
I've got to speak up, won't you?

Equal rights, equal time, for the unborn children.
Their precious lives are on the line,
How can we be rid of them?
Passing laws, passing out
Bills and new amendments.
Pay the cost and turn about,
And face the young defendants.

Who will speak up for the little ones?
Helpless and half-abandoned.
They've got the right to choose life
They don't want to lose,
I've got to speak up, won't you?

Many come and many go,
Conceived but not delivered.
The toll is astronomical,
How can we be indifferent.

Little hands, little feet,
Tears for Him who made you.
Should all on earth forsake you now,
But He'll never forsake you.

Who will speak up for the little ones?
Helpless and half-abandoned.
They've got the right to choose life
They don't want to lose,
I've got to speak up, won't you?

Forming hearts, forming minds,
Quenched before awakened,
For so many deliberate crimes
The earth will soon be shaken.

Little hands, little feet,
Tears for Him who made you.
Should all on earth forsake you now,
But He'll never forsake you.

Who will speak up for the little ones?
Helpless and half-abandoned.
They've got the right to choose life
They don't want to lose,
I've got to speak up, won't you?"


another with Keaggy and Randy Stonehill, or vice versa, I think Stonehill wrote it and Keaggy helped out

WHO WILL SAVE THE CHILDREN
Cry for all the innocent ones
born into a world
that's lost its heart
For those who never
learn to dream
because their hope is crushed
before they can start
And we shake our fists
at the air
and say, "If God is love,
how can this be fair?"

But we are His hands
We are His voice
We are the ones who must
make the choice
And if it isn't now,
tell me when?
If it isn't you, then tell me
who will save the children?
Who will save the children?

We count our blessings one by one
yet we have forgotten how to give
It seems that we don't want to face
all the hungry and homeless
who struggle to live
But heaven is watching tonight
tugging at our hearts
to do what's right

And we are His hands
We are His voice
We are the ones who must
make the choice
And if it isn't you, then tell me
who will save the children?
Who will save the children?

As we observe them through our T.V. screens
they seem so distant and unreal
But they bleed like we bleed
And they feel what we feel
Oh, save the children
Save the children
Save the children

Now we decide that nothing can change
and throw up our hands in numb despair
And we lost a piece of our souls
by teaching ourselves just
how not to care
But Christ would have gone to the cross
just to save one child from being lost

And we are His hands
We are His voice
We are the ones who must
make the choice
And it must be now
There's no time to waste
It must be you
No one can take your place
Can't you see that only we
Can save the children
Save the children
Save the children
Please, save the children

Written By Randy Stonehill

here's one written by a Christian heavy metal band called
Barren Cross.... written from the child's point of view in the
mother's womb...

Lay her down, commence to drill
A primo murder, the legal kill
I am a child about to die
My mother does not hear my cry, no

(Chorus)
Killers of the unborn, killers
Killers of the unborn, stop the killing

Injection starts to work its way
I don't feel love, I just feel pain
I'm getting weaker, my poison blood
And death surrounds me like a flood

(Chorus)

The operation is over
I'm now in pieces in a garbage bag
Guilt will now take over
'Cause where is the relief you thought you had
The shame and tears she bears
The scar of guilt she is going to wear
But he can forgive her
If she gives her life to the saviour
No, no, they're gonna kill me
I don't want to die, just let me be
No, no, I feel the pain
I feel, I feel the pain, no."


lastly from another Christian heavy metal/hard rock
band called King's X called "A Legal Kill"

13. Legal Kill (4:42)


I only know what i believe

the rest is so absurd to me

i close my eyes so i cant see

but the picture just gets clearer everyday

i read somewhere to learn is to remember

and ive learned we all forgot

there was peace in her before

but that was yesterday

but i can see the beauty that is here for me

the chance to live and walk free

from a legal kill

i know your side so very well

it makes no sense that i can tell

the smell of hell is what i smell

and you hand it out with handshakes everyday

i have trouble with the persons with the signs

but i feel the need to make my own

yes there are two ways to be

and truth does not depend on me

but i can feel the fight for life is always real

i cant believe its no big deal

its a legal kill


blessings,
Ken

Boanerges

Good point Ken- the child is never to blame- most abortions in this country are little more than a delayed form of birth control used by selfish and irresponsible people- there are of course exceptions to that statement - the mothers life came first and was protected even before this slaughter of the most helpless of God's creation began- America I love you but you have much blood on your hands-

Bassmasa

Unintended pregnancies can become absolute blessings to others, though. Not to speak for anyone else on this forum, but I know of many who are ready to literally do anything for a child of their own but are unable to naturally for whatever reason. I have 3 close friends that have adopted children from Guatemala and would be thrilled at the prospect of having one born locally for them to raise.

There are no "unwanted" pregnancies. Some may be unwanted by the biological mother, but there are thousands of would-be parents lined up to raise a little one of their own.

WasLost's points are certainly worth considering, but in the end, God created that child and no man (or woman) has the right to end it's life. The woman will have to bear 9 months of pregnancy and child birth, but for the potential of having a child raised by loving parents, it's worth the cost.

By the way, incest is frequently brought up by pro-choice people as a reason to keep abortion legal and easily available, but how often does this take place? I'm not belittling it at all, but I wonder if there are any statistics available as to how often that happens.

WasLost

I was just thinking...

These "unwanted" pregnancies that I illustrated are actually results of a completely different problem...rape. If we were harder on the criminals who commit rape, it would undoubtedly help lessen the "need" for abortion. I don't have the actual stats on hand, but I've read that rapists are nearly impossible to rehabilitate. Chemical castration isn't a viable solution because it doesn't address the primary cause of rape. Rape isn't about sex, it's about power. I firmly believe that convicted rapists should spend the rest of their natural lives behind bars.

WasLost

Boanerges

While I appreciate your heart in this matter brother it is important to note that most abortions are not connected to rape, incest etc but entail a choice to willingly murder and dismember a helpless child just out of covienience- if a person does not want kids it would be better to keep their pants on then murder the result of your poor judgement