James

Don't want to subvert another thread, so started this one.

What is fasting? To go without food? Sort of the way I always thought of it. To go without food for how long? I mean, if a christian fasts, are there some guide lines to follow laid down in the bible. Or is it sort of directed by God, the if it is done and how long.

Is it only food, or liquids, water as well? And what about sleep? Is it possible sleep is refrained from as well when fasting?

And lastly, why? What is the purpose? Is it symbolic? A sacrifice of sorts, we put off our desire for food in God's honor? Or is it to get us closer to God? By depriving ourselves of food, does it somehow open us up to God? Certainly, there are changes physiologically when we don't eat. And we can feel the results of these changes - don't think so well, don't have as much energy, might feel light headed, etc, etc, etc. Does this somehow open one up to God?

And does anyone have any experiences fasting, did something happen? Go without sleep for a few days and things start happening, that's for sure.

Thanks for any responces.

adoptivemommy

Yeah... You start to lose your mind and start feeling like killing everyone in your path... Well, not really, but something close to that. Trust me, I know...

Anywho, I can't give an answer to all your questions, but as I said in the thread started by Sylvanus, I think fasting is largely between the person doing it and God, and as such, God would more than likely show what exactly to fast. It might not even be food, it could be something important to that person like TV or, I don't know, writing in a forum like this one. That's what I think fasting is, giving up something you enjoy a lot for a time to the Lord as a gesture of love and submission. A sort of consecration to God for a time either in order to get an answer to a prayer or just to give something back! Here God, just because I love you! A thank you offering, etc. That's my take on it, anyway.

Laura

__________________
Forgiveness is His Signature!

James

"The quickest way to a man's heart is thru his stomach". I heard a woman say once, that..."No, the quickest way to a man's heart is to punch a hole in his chest and rip it out".....Yikes!!! Personally, I subscribe to the former - just feed me.

Thanks for the replies, explanations and info, very interesting it is. Just what I was looking for, Thank you.

Much to learn.

epistemaniac

I think adoptivemommy has it right that fasting is a very private issue.... I also found it interesting to learn that "Even so, with the New Testament epistles there is no reference to fasting among Gentile Christians, not even in passages where ascetic practices are mentioned (e.g., Col 2:15-22)." —Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels

I also have to wonder what biblical command there would be to forbid fasting things like TV....? Not that TV is mentioned in the bible, I am not saying anything so ridiculous as that, but the point is, there are creature comforts people have always enjoyed, and why not give those up for a time specifically set aside to worship God rather than engaging in whatever creature comfort one might have engaged in otherwise? I mean, its true that TV can be a "comfort", but then again, so is food... granted that we can live without the former and not the latter, but who's to say that a person could not give up some "comfort" of this life for a special time of using the time usually dedicated to that activity to prayer and fasting? What harm could come of it? And what good? It seems the latter idea has much more going for it in that much good could come of it, just as much good could come of fasting food or drink....

at any rate, the point is that just as we should not insist on fasting in any other way than that which is consistent with the bible, perhaps we should not forbid that which is also not specifically forbidden in the Bible.... if a person feels very strongly that they are being called to set aside a certain activity for whatever length of time and instead devote that time to God, who is to say they shouldn't? Just as a person abstaining from food has no intrinsic spiritual significance, ie a person might not be eating because of sorrow or stress or anger or even illness, and while a person CAN attach religious significance to the act of abstaining from food, it just does not seem there is anything magical about abstaining from food per se.... so I just can't see where fasting must be limited to fasting from food (or drink) only... we can attach religious significance to abstaining from any activity..... provided we are doing so for the right inner reasons and it is not just a show like those which the Pharisees put on to show to man rather than to God how "holy " they were.... one last point:

"Fasting might be partial, i.e. abstinence from certain kinds of food, or total, i.e. abstinence from all food as well as from washing, anointing, sleeping. It might be of shorter or longer duration, e.g. for one day, from sunrise to sunset (Judges 20:26; 1 Samuel 14:24; 2 Samuel 1:12; 2 Samuel 3:35). In 1 Samuel 31:13 allusion is made to a seven days' fast, while Daniel abstained from "pleasant bread," flesh, wine and anointing for three weeks (Daniel 10:3). Moses (Exodus 34:28) and Elijah (1 Kings 19:8) fasted for 40 days. It is probable that these last three references presuppose a totally different conception of the significance of fasting.......

Individuals and sects differ greatly in the degrees of strictness with which they observe fasts. In some fasts among the Jews abstinence from food and drink was observed simply from sunrise to sunset, and washing and anointing were permitted. In others of a stricter sort, the fast lasted from one sunset till the stars appeared after the next, and, not only food and drink, but washing, anointing, and every kind of agreeable activity and even salutations, were prohibited (Schurer, II, ii, 119; Edersheim, Life and Times, I, 663)—International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

At any rate, while on the one hand Jesus was so far from being a rabid ascetic he was accused of being a glutton and winebibber (Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34).... on the other His principle was to take up your cross, deny yourself and follow Him.... so "denying one's self" can take many forms, not just the denial of food...

so just as fasting food or drink can be "for your soul" so can fasting TV, internet forums, computer or console video games, reading fiction, science fiction, romance novels... basically escapism of any kind.... anything that you find keeping you from God needs to be carefully addressed, for the sake of your soul....

blessings,
Ken

James

Thanks Maniac! If ever the higher ups consider starting an area of the forum called "Questions for Epistemaniac", he he, my vote would be affirmative. But, alas, you would probably be run ragged.

You always cover so many angles, very comprehensive. Thank you very much!

epistemaniac

you are most welcome James.... glad to be of whatever help I can, whenever I can....

blessings,
Ken

epistemaniac

PS... I should also add that while I very much appreciate what you said, I just consider myself one more part of the body along with the others here.... and I don't have the experience that others have had so, again while I appreciate greatly what you said (and its especially nice to know that I have encouraged/helped someone after having long drawn out debates with atheists where nothing visible, or especially helpful seems to come of it! lol!!), yet.... its good to have a multitude of counselors...

(Proverbs 11:14) Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety.

but, again, you can't know what a blessing it is to me to know that I have helped in some small way.... it means the world to me for you to take the time to let me know I helped...

blessings,
Ken

Boanerges

Fasting is between you and God and much like any expierience in your walk - kinda like a missionary thing were you should "be sent and not just went"- - there are indeed many types of fasting as demonstrated by Daniel's fasting from the Kings "dainties"- the biggest thing I have ever learned from fasting is just how impulsive the urges of the flesh are- many times the call of the flesh to be feed is totally unnecessary- once you get a day or to into your fast you began to see this cleary- it is an opportunity to gain a degree of mastery over your unruly flesh- this is a positive thing- but again pray before you leap- all things work best according to His timing.

Bassmasa

I completed a 40 hour fast last week and might be able to share some insights with everyone. Our church was having a revival and many of us felt led to fast for however long we felt led and offer our sacrifice up to God in hopes that He would use our church during revival. Long story short...He was there!

I decided on a 40 hour fast because of the signifiance of that number in the Bible. I felt led to do a water-only fast, no food of any kind and no juice, either. Others had juice, some had crackers, it really is not important about the specifics, but the intent. Before the fast, I prayed that God would accept it as good. If you're fasting because everyone else is or because you want others to see your sacrifice, you're just starving yourself. If you do it with sincere devotion, you're fasting. Here's a test I think works well. Will you tell anyone about your fast? (except those that need to know why you're not eating, like spouses, etc.) If you feel the need to tell everyone, "Hey, I'm fasting, don't eat that in front of me" or so people will know, then re-examine your motives. If that is your motive, have a double cheeseburger and save yourself the hunger pains. If your motives are pure, expect God to sustain you for the duration. There will be some discomfort, but nothing painful by any means.

I took this passage in Matthew 6 very seriously. Christ did not mention fasting much (but did so before His temptation in the desert):

Some of the people moaned and groaned about their lack of food and seemed intentionally lethargic. As Christ said, their reward was received in full with nothing from God. But others just went about as normal (to the outside) and did not boast or talk about the fast much. It really made a difference, I think.

Surprisingly, I wasn't that hungry. I started on a Wednesday night after dinner and went through Friday morning until 11:00, 40 hours. I was plenty hungry, but not starving. Giving up morning coffee was the hardest part! God really sustained me and I think that my obedience to Him was blessed. I even worked out twice during the fast, which was tough, but I didn't want to sit around and say, "Woe is me, I'm too weak to do anything." In fact, I worked out pretty hard Friday morning before the fast ended and almost felt like God was lifting the weights for me...hard to describe.

Most importantly, I had a special communion with God. My prayer time had a different flavor and I could really feel his presence more distinctly. I plan to do others where needed in the future.

As far as the TV and stuff goes, it is a great idea, but not really a fast. I recently gave up video games for a period of time (big deal for me), and devoted that time to reading His word. It was a great experience, but didn't compare to the fast. They're both great, but different. The videogame thing was more of a sacrifice on my end, but the fast was more of a way to let God sustain me.

Some practical advice--I had some really kickin' breath by the end. Apparently, lack of food creates a terrible smell in one's throat. I didn't want any gum or mints (I did brush my teeth), but just FYI...whew! Oh, when water is the only thing you can ingest, you tend to drink a lot of it...be sure to have plenty of access to restrooms during the fast.

epistemaniac

first, having admitted publicly that you have fasted has, from a biblical point of view, might have largely negated any positive effects of your fast Matt 6:17-18; Lk 18:11-12)..... you yourself said

the Bible is clear to not tell others about your fast.... now please do not misunderstand me here.... I don't think for a minute that you are trying to puff yourself up by telling others of how long and what you fasted etc.... I am not saying you are a Pharisee or anything like that... you are just sharing your own experience... I know that... I am just saying that fasting is a very intensely personal thing to do, and to tell others of the fact that you did fast somewhat demeans the experience as moving from something that was just between you and God to something which has now become public.....

.... at any rate, fasting from food is indeed different than fasting non-food.... but how does this fact, the mere fact that is merely "different", namely giving up food versus giving up something other than food to the Lord for a period of concentration and consecration to the Lord, make the lack of food any more spiritual than fasting something else? (I realize you talk about motives in your post and again, rightly so, I am not in any way impugning your own motives for fasting, I am just speaking of fasting in general) Surely fasting food has a subjectively greater impact on us simply due to the changes the body goes through, on a physiological level and thus, on to a psychological level as well..... as we go through various physiological changes due to not having the amount of food we are accustomed to having, that is, the way God created us to be dependent on food etc.... but it doesn't seem to me that we have to therefore interpret the greater duress physically and psychologically that we go through due to the subjective experience of hunger as therefore automatically being also of greater consequence spiritually..... it CAN be... of course... I am not denying the positive spiritual effects that fasting CAN have, provided of course it is approached with proper motives etc as you rightly point out.... but just because we "feel it" more in one way or another when we go without food does not seem to equate automatically to greater closeness with God automatically.... after all, the Pharisees fasted all the time.... were they therefore more "spiritual" then those who didn't fast as often or in the same way as other "simple" believers around them? Of course not. Remember that Daniel did not fast all foods (Daniel 10:3) and this fast had just as much a positive impact on David's spirituality as when he fasted all foods for a given length of time.... so if it is not necessary to "officially" fast by not eating any kinds of food at all, then it seems it is just as permissible to fast in other ways, say, by abstaining from certain foods for a certain time with exactly the same motives as fasting from all foods, or fasting from certain other activities, then who is to say that one must fast from food and food only in order to officially "fast".....? .... or that fasting from food is the only kind of fast recognized by God? Fasting, abstaining, denying one's self etc, from whatever the object... food, entertainment, too many church meetings etc .. abstaining from anything as an attempt to focus on God, on repentance and asking for strength to "fast" (abstain) from one's own sins, or for prayer for a certain thing, etc... must be limited to food and food only? This seems to me to be an addition of man's tradition versus what the Bible says concerning our freedom.... that is to say, I do not see the Bible saying anywhere that fasting from food is the only acceptable form of fasting that God accepts.... and since this is the case (btw, if the Bible DOES say this, please show me and I will stand corrected), then it would be to lay a burden on other's shoulder's that is not a burden that is our responsibility to throw onto the shoulders of others who have a life of liberty in Christ, for if we are to take upon ourselves Jesus' yoke, and His only, then we ought not lay any other yoke on the shoulders of anyone else unless the Bible explicitly says so....

As far as fasting in general goes....
"Beyond question, it was, from first to last, "instinct with the spirit of self-denial" "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself," is an ever-recurring refrain of His teaching "Seek ye first the kingdom of God," is ever His categorical imperative (Matthew 6:33 the King James Version; Luke 12:31). This is to Him the summum bonum—all desires and strivings which have not this as their goal must be suppressed or sacrificed (compare Matthew 13:44-46; Matthew 19:21; Mark 10:21; Luke 9:59-60; Luke 14:26 with Matthew 5:29-30; Mark 9:43-47; Matthew 16:24f; Mark 8:34f; Luke 9:23f; and Luke 14:33). In short, if any man find that the gratification of any desire of the higher or lower self will impede or distract him in the performance of his duties as a subject of the Kingdom, he must forego such gratification, if he would be a disciple of Christ. "If it cause thee to stumble," is always the condition, implied or expressed, which justifies abstinence from any particular good. According to the record, Jesus alluded to fasting only twice in His teaching. In Matthew 6:16-18, where voluntary fasting is presupposed as a religious exercise of His disciples, He warns them against making it the occasion of a parade of piety: "Thou, when thou fastest, anoint thy head, and wash thy face; that thou be not seen of men to fast, but of thy Father who is in secret." In short, He sanctions fasting only as a genuine expression of a devout and contrite frame of mind.
In Matthew 9:14-17 (parallel Mark 2:18-22; Luke 5:33-39) in reply to the question of the disciples of John and of the Pharisees, Jesus refuses to enjoin fasting. He says fasting, as a recognized sign of mourning, would be inconsistent with the joy which "the sons of the bridechamber" naturally feel while "the bridegroom is with them." But, he adds, suggesting the true reason for fasting, that the days of bereavement will come, and then the outward expression of sorrow will be appropriate. Here, as in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus sanctions fasting, without enjoining it, as a form through which emotion may spontaneously seek expression. His teaching on the subject may be summarized in the one word, subordination.....
To the form of fasting He attaches little importance, as is seen in the succeeding parables of the Old Garment and the Old Wine-skins. It will not do, He says, to graft the new liberty of the gospel on the body of old observances, and, yet more, to try to force the new system of life into the ancient molds. The new piety must manifest itself in new forms of its own making (Matthew 9:16-17; Mark 2:21-22; Luke 5:36, 38). Yet Jesus shows sympathy with the prejudices of the conservatives who cling to the customs of their fathers: "No man having drunk old vine desireth new; for he saith, The old is good." But to the question, Was Jesus an ascetic? we are bound to reply, No." (emphasis mine; International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)

Lastly,I might just add that one other example of "fasting" in the bible is a commandment to a husband and wife not to "deprive" themselves from sexual activity for too long, even though such a fast can, in of itself be spiritually beneficial... for a time.... not for too long though... well... as far as defining "whats too long?" .... ahem... thats up to husbands and wives to settle for themselves and probably not a subject proper for this thread


1 Corinthians 7:5 (NASB77)
5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again lest Satan tempt you because of your lack of self-control.



just my .5 cents

blessings,
Ken