James

As it is necessary for me to take glory to myself, though it is not a good thing, I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 Cor 12:1 BBE

I have knowledge of a man in Christ, fourteen years back (if he was in the body, or out of the body, I am not able to say, but God only), who was taken up to the third heaven. 2 Cor 12:2 BBE

And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 2 Cor 12:3 KJV

How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 2 Cor 12:4 KJV

The first two passages are from the Bible in Basic English, the second two from the King James Version. I would like to get some insight as to;

1. What is being referred to by "in the body" and "out of the body"?
2. What is this "third heaven' being referred to?

Thank you....

Pastor Gary

In or Out of 'body' refers to either a flesh body or a spiritual body.

And - please review good studies on the Three Earth and Heaven ages as recapped here:

www.biblestudygames.com/biblestudies/threeworldages.htm

www.biblestudygames.com/biblestudies/rebellionofsatan.htm


Also, you can read about the THIRD Earth and Heaven age in the Book of Ezekiel Chapter 40 to the end. Ezekiel 40-48 (KJV) takes place in the THIRD Earth and Heaven Age.

Boanerges

I am not sure that even Paul new if it was a vision or a trance- eirher way it was a mind blowing expierience-

James

It's hard to tell if Paul was implying that he himself did not know if he himself was in the body or out when he encountered this "man". Would be good to see how it was translated, maybe I could find that online somewhere, will check.

"Out of body" is an old terminology as we can see. "Out of body experience" is a modern terminology that has been used to describe something that sounds very similar to what the disciples experienced, simply using their explanation of being "in the spirit" (conversely, 'out the body'), or the description Paul used here. How many different ways are there to say "out of the body", I can't think of many. None really, so it wouldn't surprise me if todays terminology is the same as then. Even derived from the original.

He doesn't know if he was either in his body or out and/or he doesn't know if the man he encountered was in the body or out. That seems clear cut. And he wasn't sleeping, or dreaming, apparently. He didn't say that. He classified it as a vision or revelation. There are examples in scripture where visions come in dreams, and they are explained that way. It wasn't described that way here.

The revelations shown to John, as recorded in the Bible, were shown to him when he was "in the spirit" (or out of the body) Rev 1:10, Rev 4:2, Rev 17:3, and Rev 21:10.

I am leaning toward the conclusion that these men were in fact experiencing these things out of their body, in their spiritual body. And would love to see any related scripture either pro or con, if any comes to mind for anyone.