freedfromdestruction

I believe that we are now nearly full blown in what one could call the Laodicean age. Sadly the church today no longer understands what repentance is from a biblical standpoint. We have come up with man made doctrines that negates the word of God.

One that comes to mind is the doctrine of backsliding. It sounds so good and so many have adopted it but it is so deadly and deceitful. In the New testament no one is ever called a backslider. That term was used exclusively for Israel as a nation and every time it is used in the Old Testament it is being directed at the nation, and saying that they are lost. It never means that they are saved and not living the life, but only that they are a people (nation) who has turned from how past generations have followed the Lord and now they do not follow, thus they are backslidden and lost. The church today is like this! Yes many claim to know Him but their hearts are far from Him.
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

In 1 John we are told the following;
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The Greek here in this passage is saying that once a person is saved they never again return to the practice of sin. The daily life of the true Christian is one of obedience and surrender towards their Lord. Yes we might sin in any given moment during any day, but it will not be the practice of a true believer to sin.

The scripture goes on and says;
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Notice that it is impossible for a true believer to return to sin, (backslide as many call it). The seed of God remains and keeps us from returning to sin as a lifestyle. One good way to judge if we are a true Christian is to heed the words of the Master.

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

The truth is that if we are not of those who are commandment keepers we do not love the Lord and we are not saved. This is not about sinless perfection, but about a heart that is surrendered to the Lord in such a way that we want and seek every aspect of His will on a moment by moment bases. We are saved by grace through faith, but we are changed unto good works.

Let us be warned and not deceived;
1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Often times in speaking to someone about this I tell them that a true believer will shock those around them if the believer sins because it is out of character for a Christian to sin. More then this, for a true believer to sin it will shock even themselves. Our sin will bring not only conviction, but a mindset of "how could I say that or how could do that. We will be shocked by our own sin regardless of the severity, IF we are saved, and be led to swiftly confess it and forsake it.

Repentance is just about a lost doctrine today in our churches, and sadly if it is mentioned it is not explained clearly. True biblical repentance is the spirit of total surrender to God in Christ. In other words we turn to God with all our hearts. Scripture says this;
Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Repentance is not 50% or 75% or 99%. It is not true biblical repentance until we surrender all. We even sing a song about this, "I surrender all". At the point of true repentance we then take that heart, that spirit, and place it on the Son, Jesus Christ, and faith is born, and we are saved. From that point on we are kept in that state and never turn from it as scripture says, for if we turn we were never saved.

1Jo 2:18 ¶ Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

We become new Creatures and old things pass away and all things become new.
2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Those who come into our mist and seem to walk with us for a time and then turn back into sin are not backsliders. They are those who were never converted and now are exposed for all to see. Yes they may have prayed a so called sinners prayer, and they may claim to know Jesus, but their deeds prove them to be liars. They may come back for rededication with tears and leave again several times before real salvation takes place, but unless they remain in the lifestyle of faith they are lost according to scripture. We can thank God that they can still come at a later date to really be saved, and some do. However let us be warned that if we develop doctrines of convenience that contradict the word of God we may be guilty of locking multitudes in a false sense of security that costs them their souls in eternal torment.

True biblical repentance is a state in which the believer lives day by day, moment by moment and is fueled by faith that is spawned by the Spirit who keeps us saved. John1 would say;

1Jo 2:1 ¶ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

All sin is a choice and no Christian has to sin;

1Cr 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

No one has ever sinned a sin in which they did not willfully choose to sin. We choose sin because of sinful hearts, but if we are of those who has been given a new heart and love the Lord we should seek righteousness due to faith as a daily practice, and even those times that we do sin they should be becoming less and less as we walk with the Master and learn how to control the flesh with its desires and passions.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

May a cry go out to the church first and then the world that salvation is by grace through faith and is brought on by repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mat 7:13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Let us take heed and not be woo asleep by the world and the many Laodicean church's of today. May we come to true biblical repentance and faith. Let us pray that the Lord will open the eyes of those who have been led astray and raise up men who will speak the truth in love.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
God Bless

__________________
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Boanerges

Oops posted (and deleted) a partial response by accident!

Boanerges

Freedomfromdestruction - I like you name!) I belive it boils down to this:

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
As Christians we are called to walk in the Spirit (big S- Holy Spirit) and as long as we are walking with our lives yeilded to Him we going to produce Godly fruit .
Lets examine these next two scriptures :

1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Whosoever is born of God sinneth not God places a new spirit in us when we are born again- this new man "Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. ' and walks according to the Spirit- the problem seems to come in with the old man always contrary to God (For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. )

I read an article about a missionary once, he was asked by the reporter what is like being a Christain and this was his reply: It's like I have two dogs inside me , a black one and a white one and they are always fighting- when asked by the reporter " which one wins?" he replied THE ONE I FEED!

Boanerges

Many a day I cry out like my brother Paul :
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Thank God for His mercy and delivering power!

Struick

Freedom, I think you are contradicting yourself a few times. At one point you say that it is impossible for a Christian to sin, and at another point you say a Christian would be shocked if he sins.
Later you talk about the fact that there should be repentance.

You say:
And than you say, (contradiction): All of this contradict it self. If it is impossible for a Christian to sin than there is no need anymore for repentance because a Christian without sin has no need to repent. And a Christian should not be shocked over sin because there is no sin.
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This is what I believe: We need to be born again, just like Jesus said. We repent of our sins and we become Christians. The Holy Spirit convicts us when we sin and we repent and because we are born again all our sins are washed away by Jesus Christ. Jesus went to the cross for all our sins (past-present and future).

We do good works as a result of our salvation.

Christians don't want to sin because that's a natural after one becomes born again. But people do fail and fall, not one is perfect, that's where one repents which is also a natural after one becomes born again.

Frank

Yes, in fact a problem arises in that when/where is the line drawn between a Christian sinning and a heathan sinning. How long can one sin before it can be said "one was never actually a Christian", and how severe can one sin before the same can be said. I really believe God can only decide based on a persons heart. Certainly if a person is approached in his/her sin, and still will not repent and call to God for help, it becomes easier to "know them by there works"

Also, I am fairly convinced that the "once saved always saved" idea is in such prominence today mostly because it is needed to support the "TULIP" theory since if the "P" pillar falls the whole theory would collapse, because "irrisistable grace" cannot be resisted, so I'm told.

When I think about it, whether a back sliden Christian or just a sinner who is not saved really to begin with, either way that person will not be going to heaven if they die in that present state of deliberate disobedience. So then whether or not "perseverance of the saints" is true or not becomes less important than the question... are you presently walking with the Lord or not.

Frank

Theophilus

A differant perspective on this subject

As many are too quick to claim to be christian many are too quick to accept the claim without discernment.
As Frank said the question of if the individual was and now isn't or never was is irrelvant. We need only to disern their christianity in order to help them or deside if and to what extent we should associate with them. In short . . . Are they a brother or sister in Christ?
If they are, and they are sinning is ther sin putting themselves or others at risk? Is it disobedeant or offencive to God?
If it is and they are truely a brother or sister bringing it to their attention will result in repentance. If it dosn't then we need to re-evaluate our relationship with them.
A true brother or sister will (for our benifit) confront us with the truth about our sin so that we may confess and repent of it. And a true christian will respect and appreciate our concern and respond by confession and repentance. That is why we are told not to forsake the assembling together. So that we can know each other well enough to care and help rather than stand at adistance and point and accuse . Labeling addresses the issue but does nothing for the individual.
They will know that we are HIS in that we show love for one another.

Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
We need to determine not if another is a Christian but assure ourselves that he or she is a brother or sister.
the strongest evidence of that is not the absence of sin but a sustained effort to remove all sin from our lives. For the spirit is strong and the flesh is weak. And as brother and sisters in the family of christ we should as the father does will that not one be lost and make a sincere effort to help our brothers and sisters get into and remain in Christ.

Sincerely His
and yours
Cliff

Boanerges

I like to go with the fruit inspector theory- we may all stumble sometimes but if we truly love Jesus we will eventually bear Godly fruit. I am convinced that :
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

God judges His people differently than the world, He judges us first as an act of mercy in order to set us free from the things that hinder our walk with Him and it's purpose is to free us from bonadage:

Dan 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

All my confidence is in His ability:
Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Phi 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

With all His wonderful promisesand His faithfulness I know that even if I stumble He will always be there to pick me up!