Joyful

Jesus tell us to love our enemy.

It seems there are many excuses for churches and chruchgoers to support the military as being biblical.

As Jesus' ambassadors, we have a responsibility to look godly in people's eyes. When we kill and fight like our enemies do, we don't look godly.
I believe we are committing a grave sin when we disgrace God and Jesus by looking like maniacs.

M Paul

Yours is the minority view. When barbarians were overrunning the Roman Empire the issue arose whether it was Christian to fight back. Augustine offered the "Just War Theory" based on Scripture. This position then became the basis of international law regarding war, which remains in force to this day. It has had some refinement by others, but it is still Augustine's position.

I think his theory is a good one and should be studied by all Christians to some extent. I think any refutation of there being a just war has to address this theory sooner or later to be given any real consideration.

M Paul

Joyful

Thank you Paul for your response.

I know that many will come up with biblical verses. We can always justify everything even using the Scriptures.

That's why I don't get into debates. My views come from an evangelistic point of view. We cannot evangelize God and Jesus' love by killing our enemies; "love your enemy" and killing our enemies don't mix.

M Paul

You don't debate, but you are presenting your side of it.

Let's just say the issue is not as simple as it is often represented in debate.

M Paul

Joyful

As evangelist, it is very simple and clear to me.

Joyful

Paul,

Why don't you join in this thread? Are you just waiting someone to argue to watch?

M Paul

I did join in. See post #2.

M Paul

Joyful

Paul,

I am protesting against the military from an evangelistic point of view. I have been evangelizing since I became Christian several years ago. It is just not consistant to convice people about God and Jesus' Love when we are killing our enemy like everyone else. Do you know what I mean?

M Paul

That post nos. 2 & 4 do not contribute anything of substance to the thread.

Ok.

M Paul

Pastor Gary

Joyful - you have expressed an opinion based upon YOUR understanding of scripture. However, your position is in the minority and perhaps you should look at the scripture that you are drawing from once again and take those words back to the Original Greek Manuscript language for a true word meaning and study. Relying solely on the King James Version for 'understanding' is not the way to study God's Word.

Let me just quote some scripture (although you have already mentioned that it may be fruitless for anyone to do so in your view):

This country (U.S.) was predicated upon the laws of God, and the U.S. Constitution reflects those laws. It was based upon Christian values and God's Word including the protection of liberty and the lives of the citizens who care deeply about this country.

Reading the Bible is one thing - Understanding the Bible in it's Original Languages and Manuscript form is quite another matter.

In Romans 12:18 (KJV) we are told, "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men."

Note the qualification: "IF IT BE POSSIBLE". There are some persons who are so dispicable and heathen that there is no way that we can live peaceably with them. That is why the qualification was included in the scripture.

We are also told in 1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV), "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." This not only means that we should care for our family by providing godly instruction, it also means that we must TAKE CARE OF THEM in material ways and in protection. This may include physical confrontation to keep our families safe.

In Judges 7 (KJV), there is an excellent study on the military and how to take care of business when opression is placed upon a people or a nation.

Your statement is a cause for concern. You make a statement and then hide behind your 'no debate' philosophy. What did you expect the patriotic members here to do - just sit idly by while you make a statement that is NOT backed by accurate original scripture, but rather a tradtion and teaching of man's liberal politics?

Please re-read your King James Version bible and take the words back to the original Greek language using a Strong's Concordance... THEN perhaps you will see that Christian Values include the protection of Christians and their families. Christians are not second or third class citizens and are not to be the door mat for every fringe extremist group to wipe their feet on.