Kevin

We have been instructed from the beginning of time to seek God. Jesus Himself said that we are to seek the kingdom of God.

What Ben is touching on is the theory of predestination, which has already been discussed at length on this forum. I have already stated what my beliefs are in regard to predestination in other threads, so I will not discuss it further here. Great news is that is actually does not matter if we believe in predestination or not, as long as we believe in Jesus as our saviour and Lord is what counts!

To say no one seeks God based on one scripture in psalms, is insufficient evidence to support this claim. Paul used this as an illustration to reveal the sinfull nature in man.

There are numerous cases in the OT of what happened when people sought after God, Abraham, Enoch, David, Joshua, Moses and all the prophets, and there are cases of what happened when people stopped seeking God.

Instead of sitting back waiting for God to bang us into the wall to wake us up, we should just be obedient christians and do what God has already told us to do in His word.

People often come to Christ, and although Jesus instructs us to get baptised and recieve the Holy Spirit, some immediately disobey Gods word and say baptism isn't for them. I always ask, How serious where they to begin with? Is Jesus a reality to them or is He another cultural belief?

How can we come to Jesus and at the first corner disobey Him?

There are numerous teachings today that try and lead christians, old and new, into a state of apathy, where they say they are waiting for God to intervene and do the next step. HELLO! God has given us His word which clearly states what we are to do.

All I can say is, if you have not been baptised or feel you have not recieved the Holy Spirit, go and get it done. Jesus has instructed us to do so. Gods word does not lie. You will see differences in your life.

As christians we are told that we must live by faith. This means we take Gods word for what it is and apply it to our lives. To take a step of faith is at first scary but the reward is incredible and so your faith will grow.

As christians we need to stop worrying about our own salvation. If we believe in Jesus and follow His commands then we are saved. To believe in somebody means we do what they command. We need to remember why we have been saved. We have been saved so we can be conformed into the image of Christ and to spread the gospel to unbelievers. To spread the Gospel and to be conformed into the image of Christ, we need the Holy Spirit, we cannot do these things without Him.

Whether we believe that the infilling of the Holy Spirit is a secondary salvation experience or not, if we do not have the Holy Spirit we will not see the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives and we should actively ask God for the Holy Spirit. The bible says that the Holy Spirit was given many times by the laying on of hands by believers. If we feel that we do not have the Holy Spirit then what have we got to lose by first praying for the gift of the Holy Spirit and then asking a Holy Spirit filled believer to lay hands on us and pray for us. After all that is what the bible promotes!

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Isa 9:6 For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Mark_18

AMEN!! x A LOT

I haven't been baptized yet, but He does know that I WILL do it and really WANT to do it. Because of that - it's as good as done, I say.

Just like the heart-crimes.

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Luke 15:31 - And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
Joel 2:28 - I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
Matthew 7:7 - Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Psalms 126:5 - Those who sow in tears will reap with songs of joy.

JOKE POLICE

Kevin

Go for it Mark, do not delay, there is no reason to delay.
Why run on two cylinders when we can run on four!

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Isa 9:6 For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Mark_18

I'm just limited by when they're done. It's not for a while I think. I'd like to do it in the Jordan though.

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Luke 15:31 - And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
Joel 2:28 - I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
Matthew 7:7 - Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Psalms 126:5 - Those who sow in tears will reap with songs of joy.

JOKE POLICE

Dusty

Keven.... There is so much meat to chew on in this post . Thankyou for your exempliary explanation. I don't think there needs to be any more expounding . Excellant brother .

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Trials prove a Christian

Love confirms a Christian

But death crowns a Christian

Dusty

Hey Mark, no reason to do it now and some day you can still do it in the Jordan. I have been baptised many years ago and am going to Israel in Nov. and have requested to be baptised again in the River Jordan. I am getting so excited about it.

__________________

Trials prove a Christian

Love confirms a Christian

But death crowns a Christian

Mark_18

Great now you got me on a mindset thats simply zombified to say "Must be baptized in the Jordan River"

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Luke 15:31 - And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
Joel 2:28 - I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
Matthew 7:7 - Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Psalms 126:5 - Those who sow in tears will reap with songs of joy.

JOKE POLICE

Dusty

__________________

Trials prove a Christian

Love confirms a Christian

But death crowns a Christian

Dusty

OOps !!!!.... The other post should have meant . Go and get baptised now and when you are ready to go to Israel you can still do it again . Sometimes I don't express my self well, Sorry .. It's the sometimers problem..... Ha ha ...LOL... If I don't laugh at myself who will ?

__________________

Trials prove a Christian

Love confirms a Christian

But death crowns a Christian

Dusty

1 John 5:5-8



5........Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.


6.....This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.



7....For there are three that testify:



8.....the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.



Footnotes:

1. ....1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century)

__________________

Trials prove a Christian

Love confirms a Christian

But death crowns a Christian