Leonidus

Hi there,

I know this is bit of two edge sword. Typically songs composed for the LORD should be given freely. But there are some church who sell sermons and songs.

I've stopped useing the Limewire to download songs becuase it breaks the 8th commandment.

So if i download a worship song from Limewire would i be breaking the 8th commandment "Thou shall NOT steal"?

Who am I

Is LimeWire Legal?
LimeWire, the software application, is completely legal. What many people do with LimeWire -- namely downloading and distributing copyright material -- isn't legal.

LimeWire's defense is that its software is a tool. Like any other tool, its use is dependent on the users. The same hammer that helps build a house can be used to break the back window and rob it. The person who sells the hammer can't be held responsible for how it's used. Right?

But we're not talking about hammers. We're talking about software that millions of people use exclusively for illegally sharing copyrighted material. The U.S. Supreme Court, in its 2005 ruling against the maker of the file-sharing software Grokster and Morpheus, found that the company was intentionally positioning itself as a replacement for Napster (Grokster and Napster, for example, both have names that ends with "ster") [source: Cnet]. That was enough for the court to rule that Grokster and Morpheus encouraged their users to engage in illegal behavior.

In August 2006, several large record companies sued LimeWire for encouraging Internet piracy. They're asking for $150,000 for each song distributed without permission of the copyright holder [source: Cnet]. A week earlier, the makers of Kazaa, another popular file-sharing application, settled with the music industry for $115 million and installed special filters on its software to block copyright material. As of this writing, the case against LimeWire is still pending.

Even if LimeWire is found not guilty, its users are still vulnerable. Since September 2003, the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) has initiated lawsuits against more than 20,000 individuals for alleged illegal file-sharing [source: Electronic Frontier Foundation].

The accused individuals receive a letter from the RIAA's lawyers with a settlement offer to avoid going to court. The individuals are identified by their IP addresses. If the individual refuses to pay the settlement -- typically between $3,000 and $11,000 -- the RIAA threatens to sue them by name for a larger amount [source: Electronic Frontier Foundation].

Even with the RIAA's legal assault on software companies and individuals, the number of active worldwide file-sharers continues to grow. And if LimeWire gets shut down tomorrow, there are already dozens of other programs poised to take its place.


http://communication.howstuffworks.com/limewire4.htm

__________________
Blessings to all

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD,
thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

FarsightX3

Good question. I don't use limewire all the time. I just downloaded the songs I wanted and then deleted the program. I didnt sell anything. I suppose its breaking the 8th commandment because these were songs that were used to make profit. Getting them for free from not that person who made those songs, then I would consider that steeling. Wow. I never thought of that until i wrote this. Looks like I am gonna have to save up and buy the cds =\

Should I still listen to them? I only have about 50 songs.

Mark_18

Well deleting them is not giving them back...

?

If you ask me the artists are generally rich enough, they don't need the money of the lower class that's just trying to get by.

I know we should not steal, but is it not possible that this is okay?

We can watch them on youtube anyways...

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Luke 15:31 - And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
Joel 2:28 - I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
Matthew 7:7 - Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Psalms 126:5 - Those who sow in tears will reap with songs of joy.

JOKE POLICE

Leonidus

I have published a similar kind of thread before along time ago. u might find it usefull if you search CFS and people here have sent alot of replies. But that thread was targeted downloading MP3s in general. The reason i posted this again becuase Worship songs should be given for free becuase they are for the church and praise and the glory of GOD. In my opinion we should not sell things to the church but we should donate. Furthermore Not many people can afford collecting CDs and CDs of worshipsongs...

If i do something for the church i will NOT charge a penny
But if i do something for a profitable organization i will be charging bulk sum of money.Becuase they make heaps of profit out of my work.

Housesitter

I believe that you are a very sincere, genuine young man who as a real desire to please God.
That is wonderful.
But I have also noticed from your many questions on the forum that you are in real need of some solid biblical teaching.
You have so many questions. That is a good thing but you need teaching so that you can grow in your faith and understanding.
I honestly believe that you need to find and get involved in a local bible believing church.
This is necessary if you are to go further in your walk with God.
Please do not just brush this aside. Make finding a good church the priority in your life for the next few weeks.
I want to see you grow as a believer. God has plans for your future.But you need a solid foundation of teaching.
(I am going to post this message in all your recent threads because I feel so strongly about it.)

__________________
Ray
Enjoy a rent free holiday with
Christian House Sitters
www.christian-housesitters.com

Fipi

It's great that you're interested in hearing worship songs, but I think even though it's worship songs you're dealing with, it's still wrong to get them without paying if they are not free. If this doesn't go against the 8th commandment (I think it does), then it breaks the rules in the New Testament about obeying government authority (see below). The government (laws) says you can't get those sermons and worship songs without paying or else it's stealing. It's true that it would be really great if songs composed for God were available for free, but I don't think the church is doing wrong by selling them.
You know how some people say that downloading copyrighted music and movies and games through file sharing programs is just as bad as stealing things off of the shelf in a store? Well I think it's the same thing for downloading worship songs that are not free: it's like picking up worship CD's that are for sale off of a table at church and taking them home without paying for them. That would make my conscience a lot heavier than if I had simply downloaded the songs, but that's just because downloading songs is anonymous - the church won't even miss the downloaded songs. But they don't get paid for the songs when they should have been, so it's still wrong I think.

Matthew 22:15-22
[15] Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. [16] They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. [17] Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" [18] But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? [19] Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, [20] and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"
[21] "Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."
[22] When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

Romans 13:1-7
"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. [2] Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. [3] For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. [4] For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. [5] Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. [6] This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. [7] Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

Fipi

Now that's a tough one to answer. I think it's only illegal to upload videos to Youtube with copyrighted material, but it's not illegal to watch them (correct me if I'm wrong). However, that doesn't mean watching the videos is not wrong. We have to follow the laws of the Bible as well as the laws of the government ... but I don't know if the laws of the Bible about stealing apply to this. Personally I think they do, but I'm not sure about that...
What a complicated world we live in.

EDIT: Actually I don't think uploading videos with copyrighted material to Youtube is illegal, according to an article I just read. But the uploader could have obtained the copyrighted material illegally.

Who am I

But deleting them may cause you to go buy them.

How much money the artists have isn’t really an issue here. They work for their money and deserve to get paid as much as anyone.

Stealing is stealing, period.


It just doesn’t seem that bad because we have looked at stealing for years as physically taking something that doesn’t belong to us. It’s hard to view downloading as stealing. We just aren’t as physically involved and it’s done in the open.

I still remember a few years ago a friend of mine was visiting me. We stopped at the grocery store and as we were walking around getting what we needed, he grabbed a grape as we walked past them. He popped it into his mouth and ate it. I looked at him and asked if he was going to pay for that. He responded… “It’s just a grape”. Anyway… after we left, he told me that he couldn’t stop thinking about the grape and what I said, and he was starting to feel guilty now.

It’s just a grape… it’s just a downloaded song… it’s just stealing…

But it’s up everyone to decide for themselves. I’m not going to do it.
And I don’t eat the grapes in the store.

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Blessings to all

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD,
thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Boanerges

Leonidus my brother if you were not feeling wrong about it you would not have started this thread. That is the gentle conviction of the Holy Spirit. Keep your heart sensitive and your spiritual ears open for His leading.

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Anything that dims my vision for Christ, or takes away my taste for Bible study, or cramps me in my prayer life, or makes Christian work difficult, is wrong for me; and I must, as a Christian turn away from it. – J. Wilbur Chapman