carlos

Hi everyone,

I just joined the forum yesterday and am hoping to get some input or advice on an idea I have to start a church using the Internet. Please bear with me as I know that some of what I hope to do and the reasons why I want to do what I propose may not seem clear, biblical, or otherwise...at least at first.

It would take too long to explain everything that is on my heart over which I would really appreciate getting input in this first post but, for now let me say this...

In 1978 I became a Christian (trusted in the forgiveness offered to us in the cross, turned my life over to God, and began to follow the Lord Jesus Christ in daily life). Since becoming a Christian I have attended various churches for varying lengths of time from ten years to several months and have continually throughout that time read the Bible and sought God for understanding on what it says directly from Him.

I have come to the conclusion that there is a vast and I mean vast difference between what they did in the New Testament Church and what the North American Church does today in it's practice.

Without going into all the differences let me just state one.

1 Corinthians 14:26 says in part the following:

Now I don't know what your all's experience of church has been but in all the years of attending your typical and sometimes not so typical churches that I have, I have never...I mean NEVER seen the above verse lived out. Anywhere!

I don't rightly know why. As far as I understand things biblically there simply is no reason to prevent the Holy Spirit from working through each person in a church meeting in the way described above. Except that the above is just not the way things are done these days.

I propose to start a church that will give the freedom that the Holy Spirit apparently wishes to have in His church to whichever member of that church is prompted by the Spirit to exercise any gift they may have. Whenever the Holy Spirit wishes to use that person's gift for the edification of the church.

At the risk of wearing out a well known phrase...we really and honestly do need to get back to New Testament practices that enriched the New Testament church and that in part made it what it was.

The above is just one difference that is prompting me to start something new that is not constrained by North American church traditions. Quite frankly I just can't stand going to Sunday church anymore. It seems like most if not all North American churches follow the same basic pattern of practice today. Namely some signing mixed in with someone (usually the pastor) getting up and telling the rest of those gathered what he thinks the Bible says. While those gathered generally sit and listen until the service is ended and they are dismissed to go home.

It doesn't matter if it's Pentecostal, Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican, or whatever other Christian denomination there is. They all follow the same pattern of church practice.

Anyway the basic idea that I have is this...

Put up on a website pages having to do with the way things were in the New Testament. Connect a forum to those pages so that discussions can be facilitated. Print up business card like "tracts" locally and leave them everywhere so as to hopefully get some people to come to the web site and enter into discussions.

All this to allow the Lord to begin to build consensus on what the church should be like. Then...again if the Lord wills it to and blesses my efforts...encourage one's to join together as much as they can. Locally. While still supporting and maintaining the online presence.

ideally a church with an online as well as a local presence.

Lots more on this can be said but for now I will wait to see what feedback I get before saying more.

Thanks.

Carlos

Who am I

You said you were hoping to get some input or advice on an idea you have…

Just a couple questions.
Is it your idea?
Or is it God’s plan?

If it’s God’s plan… do it.
If it’s your idea… don’t do it.

Even if it’s God’s plan, it won’t be easy. If it’s your idea, it will be harder and you will be doing something that isn’t part of God’s plan for you and that will be distracting you from what His plan is for you.

This one is between you and God. If God says do it… do it.

Blessings
Dean

__________________
Blessings to all

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD,
thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

carlos

Hi Dean,

Thanks for your input!

Given that God is in us both to will and to work for His good purposes is it not possible that it could be both? I mean is it not possible that God could be implanting this idea within me such that it could rightly be said to be both my idea (based on what I read in the Bible) and God's?

I also think of those verses that say we have the mind of Christ where His thoughts become ours and ours His. And the one's where Paul says that he lives but that it is not really he who lives but Christ who lives in Him - such that Paul was still himself but that in another sense He was also Christ living and presumably thinking through him.

Any further thoughts from you or anyone else Dean would be appreciated.

Part of the reason I came on the forum looking for advice is that I want this idea to be scrutinized in terms of my motives. I want the Lord to bless anything I may undertake to do and as such I want my motives to be right before Him.

So please don't hesitate to question my motives or otherwise express any reservations or questions anyone might have.

Carlos

Theophilus

Brother Carlos

Continue on brother. Go for it. Take it to the next level or as far as the Lord compels you. I can't tell you if it's God's will or not that it will become something, but I can assure you that it is in God's will that you try. If it is in His will it will come to pass. If not, it will not.
Remember Jesus sent them out in two's so don't do it alone. Take along some accountability partners. Those who like you share the vision and are compeled to do God's will.


Sincerely
His
Cliff

carlos

Hi Cliff,

Thanks for the encouragement Cliff. I wish I did have others to do this with but I don't know of anyone who would be willing to be put the time into it with me.

You know I was thinking of this some this morning as I read the Bible and it particularly struck me that when Moses was given the details of how to build the Temple (in Exodus) he did not question whether it was God's will for him to do it. He just went and did it.

I have not heard the voice of God speaking to me out of a cloud as the Lord did to Moses but I have read what the Word says the Church should be like. And I just don't see it around me anywhere.

I am not some big cheese kinda fellow. I have all kinds of problems in my life at least before the Lord who knows all. But I do very much want to be in the kind of church that is described in the New Testament. Where I am vulnerable and real before both God and my brothers and sisters in the Lord.

I experienced that once in my life for about three months when the Lord prompted me to start an apartment fellowship in the apartment I was living in. That prompting was of the miraculous kind. It was distinct and clear and spoken by the voice of God within me. The fruit of that effort was marvelous. Out of this world. The reality of God on a daily basis was unreal to all those that got involved with me in that enterprise. But...sad to say...my immaturity at the time destroyed the very fellowship I longed for.

I insisted that others go door to door witnessing. That it was God's will. And that those who weren't willing might be...well...a bit resistant to God. How foolish I was. I pushed and pushed it until I drove away those who were with me. Something I regretted having done since.

Life goes on and I find myself continually wishing for that same kind of fellowship and living, sweet Presence of the Lord in our midst but to date I have not found it in your average church.

And...I never do anything. I just sit here without fellowship of any kind...except maybe over the Internet and some very limited fellowship at some Christian agencies that feed the hungry.

I can't find the Christians outside of Sunday services...which I can't stand going to anymore. It's like they all disappear into their private lives or something. Blend into the woodwork of everyday life such that you cannot tell very readily who is a true believer and who is not. In truth..I suppose I seem that way too to others.

But I got to do something. I am getting older and older by the day and the day of my death quickly approaches. Better I say to do something, anything in line with what God says in the Bible and fail miserably, than continue to wander in a wasteland of relative uselessness. Who knows if the Lord might not look with favor upon me and bless my efforts.

I wish to God that I had someone else to do things with. To strategize before the Lord together. To hold each other up in prayer. To love on each other. But I don't.

This isn't my gig. The Lord above is the one who calls the church to be what He wants it to be. It's not happening as far as I can tell. Most North American's are playing at church.

Sorry for the long post but I get rather passionate sometimes regarding this whole affair. Sometimes when I am in the presence of Christians I tend to let it all out . I hope I didn't scare anyone.

Carlos

Who am I

Carlos

One of my favorite chapters is Psalm 91. It starts out talking about abiding under the shadow of the Almighty. The way I’ve been taught, if you are in God’s will and doing what He has planned for you to do, He will protect you. If you venture out from under His covering, I believe He will still protect you, but you may have more problems than you care to think about. It’s all about obedience. Even if you are doing a good thing, if it’s not what God wants you to do, then who is going to do what God has planned for you to do?

For instance… if your boss wants you to sweep the warehouse floor, but you decide to organize some shelves instead… It’s a good thing and the shelves needed to be organized, but your boss already had another guy coming in to organize the shelves. Now your boss needs to reassign that man to do something else. He had it all planned and now he has to change his plan.

It’s the same thing with God. He has a plan for everyone. And a certain time for that plan to be carried out. I’m not saying this isn’t God’s plan for you, but it would be wise to make sure it is.

I’ve found out with my life, that God’s plans for me are seldom what I want to do. God seems to want me to do things that bring me out of my comfort zone. That way, I’m not just doing something that is a good thing, but I’m learning a lot more than I would if I did something I was comfortable with. I believe most of the real good preachers are the ones who will say… “If it were my choice… I’d be doing something else”. I can’t think of anyone in the Bible whose life got easier, once they decided to do what God had planned for them.

I think a good indicator would be if you are feeling a little uncomfortable about what you are going to do, and how, but feel good about why you are doing it, (to please God and give Him all the glory), then you might be on the right track. But don’t ever go entirely on “feelings”.

And remember, if you abide under the shadow of the Almighty… He will be your refuge and your fortress. And in all your ways, acknowledge Him and lean not on your own understanding. If this isn’t God’s plan for you… who is going to do what He has planned for you? I’m sure if you do this, God will bless you, but what if He has better things planned for you?

I just want you to know that you know.

Blessings to you and for whatever you decide.
Dean

And I almost forgot. We do have the mind of Christ, but we still have our own. Take every thought captive, whether it be from God, satan or our self. I believe that sometimes we have to distinguish from 4 different origins of our thoughts. Did the thought come from God, satan, our spirit or our soul? And I do believe that sometimes satan will put some good ideas into my mind just to try to trip me up. If he can get me to do something other than what God has planned for me, it doesn’t matter if it is a good thing, it would still bring me out of obedience.

__________________
Blessings to all

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD,
thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Who am I

Hello Carlos
I just read your response to Cliff. I think I know how you feel. I’m very fortunate to have found the Church I go to. It is like in the book of Acts. We meet in our Pastors living room. We are a small bunch, but there is a lot of unity. And Pastor Mary reminds us every once in a while, “if anyone else has something to talk about, just let me know and the pulpit is all yours”. We also do more teaching and training than an average Church. We are different, and our middle name is “flexible”. There are so many Churches out there now that are ridged with everything set in stone. They go for exactly one hour and that’s it. The same thing every week, week after week. And I think you are right. It wasn’t like that in Acts. I’m sure things were always changing as they needed.

Blessings
Dean

__________________
Blessings to all

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD,
thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

carlos

Excellent thoughts for me to ponder and pray over Dean. Thanks very much for sharing them with me!

All I know is that I don't fit into normal churches. I am too focused on how things should be based on what I read in the Bible. I have tasted of a kind of fellowship with both God and man in the past that surpasses by far anything I have experienced in most all the churches I have ever been a part of. I see that kind of fellowship in the Bible..I don't see it in everyday life. I want it and I want to do something about it.

But it's not just what I want...it's also what God wants...and it is also what must happen if the Church is to be restored to the power and grace that was evident in her during New Testament times.

That is why I asked if it was not possible for something to be both mine and God's will. My will working out God's will in me.

I know what you are saying about discerning where an inner voice is coming from. For sure Dean. No question that despite having the mind of Christ in us, that sometimes the thoughts that are there are not of Christ. I must be careful with that.

Yet at the same time I don't think that the flesh or Satan would be prompting me to start something new that will hopefully allow God to be all that He wants to be in the Body of Christ. Like He was in the best times of the New Testament.

I do not want to do what I want to be somebody in the Body of Christ. I could care less about being somebody in the eyes of man - at least most times I could care less. I do want my life to count and have significance but that only comes by following the Lord and doing what He wants.

The praise of man is so wishy washy and fickle. Here one day and gone the next. I've experienced that and it's just not worth seeking the praise of man.

When I was younger I used to pray up a heartfelt storm that God would use me to speak to multitudes. To stand up in auditoriums and speak to thousands. How grand that would be and how useful my life would be I thought. That desire has long ago died.

These days I will settle for being one believer among many who love the Lord and are consumed by Him. I will settle for using whatever gifts I have to further His Kingdom in the relationships that develop around me as others use whatever gifts they have in their relationship with me. Notice I said relationship. Not church service. I want to operate in my gifts in the context of loving relationships with other believers. All of us surrounded and embraced by the love of God as we love one another.

I don't want to be some hot shot teacher that others sit and listen to. I want God to teach us all through whomever he cares to do it.

I am just a little guy who wants to find his place in the Body of Christ. As I said I just don't fit into most churches. With their church traditions. I want more than that. I want the real thing. I want to touch the living Lord and experience His love through His Body. I don't want the same old go to some building on Sunday morning, hear a good sermon while sitting for two hours, and then go home to not "experience" God again until next Sunday. I am sick of that. Not to mention that such a practice is not the Biblical model of what church should be.

Anyway just a few more thoughts from my end. It feels good to share things with other believers. Thanks for "listening".

Incidentally on a more practical note...I am quite adept at using Internet technologies so what I am proposing to do is no problem in that regard. The Internet is a unique medium through which I can write at length on various topics. It's just a matter of getting people to come and read but I think leaving "business" cards everywhere like little tracks might do the trick.

And I have started several businesses from scratch. While that is neither here or there with respect to the Kingdom of God it does show that I have the tenacity to stick to something when I am passionate about doing it. Even if I do that something alone.

Of course writing by itself and sticking to it will not guarantee success by any means. It is God who causes the growth in His Body. And it is the Lord who will have to prompt the hearts of others to join me in this. Apart from His intervention in the hearts of others all I will have is some nice thoughts on some web pages and a whole lot of activity getting business cards out - which isn't anything at all .

Carlos

carlos

I think for now that I will start writing some web pages and posting them on a web site One step at a time. It will take some time but I think I need to start.

If nothing else it will give me a chance to crystalize my thoughts and have something to point others too.

Carlos

Theophilus

Carlos,

Something that I find missing from the conventional church is real fellowship. A real and sacrificial relationship based solely on a common belief and faith in Christ Jesus. I sincerely believe that is what "church" is or at least should be about. Certianly in the biblical study of the first century church that is the one aspect that is most prevelant.
People touching peoples lives for Christ rather than ministiries seeking congregants.

Please keep me in the loop concerning your efforts ,progress and web sites that result.

Sincerely,
Brother
Cliff