JimmyWest

Carnal Christians vs. Spiritual Christians

1 Corinthians 2

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Two years ago, I made a commitment to God that I would make it my purpose to reach the church and lead them into a spiritual relationship with him. I did this after personally experiencing the difference between being a Carnal Christian and a Spiritual Christian.

I have continually run into a roadblock that has effectively stifled my efforts. The roadblock that I have run into is: VIRTUALLY EVERY carnal believer believes that they are already spiritual.

Somehow, somewhere, back in time, the definition of “spiritual� became a definition that better suited a carnal church. Believers in the modern Christian church believe that they are spiritual if they; sing in the choir, attend church often, study scripture diligently or serve as an usher or some other capacity.

Those things have nothing to do with spirituality. A spiritual person is a person whose spiritual ear is in tune to Gods spiritual voice, and live their lives entirely based on what the Holy Spirit tells them. Not only do they hear the Holy Spirit, but they physically FEEL the Holy Spirit. A carnal person can not hear the Holy Spirit because of the clutter of their flesh.
The Holy Spirit is calling out to them, but they are listening to their instincts instead. And until a believer seriously rebukes their flesh, the Holy Spirit will not override what they are hearing from their carnal instincts.

The sad thing is that these people are absolutely positive that they are hearing the Holy Spirit. That is based on an ASSUMPTION. They believe that just because they received the Holy Spirit when they were Born Again, they must be hearing it now.

Carnal Christians do not, can not, have a true relationship with God. They believe that because they have memorized scripture and they pray, that they have a relationship. That is an assumed relationship, a total fantasy.
They believe that because they know everything that is written about God, they have a relationship with him. They believe that because they pray to Him, they have a relationship. If they can not hear the Holy Spirit, it is a one way conversation and that is not a relationship.

The only true relationship that we can have with God is a relationship of two-way love and trust through the Holy Spirit. A one-way relationship is not a relationship at all. I know I am going to catch some flack here, but if you are praising God from your very soul in a two way Holy Spirit relationship, you are going to physically feel something. If you are not feeling something, then you ARE NOT YET THERE! You are not spiritual in your relationship.

I’ve found that spiritual believers are more theologically flexible. Before you jump down my throat, let me explain. Spiritual believers know things about Gods nature that go beyond scripture. They learn this through the closeness of a loving relationship. So what happens is that they will read something in scripture that doesn’t make sense because it goes against what they have found to be Gods true nature. They don’t say that the scripture is wrong. They will say that either their understanding of the scripture is incorrect, that somebody else’s interpretation of the scripture is wrong, or that the scripture was meant to be metaphorical and not literal.
They know that something is wrong, so they will not deal with it because they know what is true based on their personal knowledge through a direct two-way spiritual relationship, so they will deal with that instead.
A carnal believer will believe anything that is written weather it makes sense or not, even if it goes against the very nature of God, because the written word is all they have.

A spiritual believer has true inner joy because they have become one-in-spirit with God and that joy is the direct result of sharing Gods nature.
A carnal believer has peripheral joy that comes and goes depending on the moment. A spiritual believer will get angry at the situation. A carnal believer will get angry at the person. A spiritual believer thinks about and lives for God every single day. A carnal believer may think about God every day but only lives for him on Sunday or when it is convenient.
A spiritual believer will let God deal with everything including all the trivial matters that the church can not agree on. A carnal believer will point the finger at his brothers, accuse and judge them under the guise of doing Gods work.

So, here is the deal: If you really want to get to know God on a personal level, then you need to get spiritual in your relationship with him.
90% of the Christian Church are still carnal. Are you one of them?
If you are, please know that God does not want you to remain there. He wants to have that father/child relationship with you now. Are you ready to give him what he wants and deserves?

mira

Hello Jimmy West,
Very good post. I agree, a person should have a personal relationship with the Lord. This is primarily done by going to church, receiving the sacraments and reading the Bible. Lets not forget the Ten Commandments.

God bless you,
mira

JimmyWest

No, that is not how it is done. That is the prevalent falacy in the church. Those things have absolutely nothing to do with spiritual growth (if that is what you are talking about).

A spiritual relationship is ONLY started when a person gives themselves wholey to God. Not just in word, but in deed. It requires that the person make God absolutely number 1 in his life over EVERYTHING else. That person must be willing to give up EVERYTHING for God. You will never be required to give up everything, but you must be willing to do so. You've got to live FOR God every day, not just on Sunday or when it is convenient for you. You've got to live to be a blessing to him and must bless him whenever the opportunity presents itself. You've got to love him like you have never loved anybody else. Again, not just in word, but in deed.

Emily

Thank you JimmyWest. I'm not a 'cradle cristian' and I often don't know the meaning of terms such as carnal christian, born again christian, evangalism, etc, etc. Now I know a little more, so thank you.

Liberty

JimmyWest, I believe I know what you're talking about. My heart aches for most of the people I see in the church, because they seem to play a good game, but I don't believe they really know the Lord on a personal level. If they did, they would have more joy in their lives and more praise on their lips.
I understand your message, but may I suggest that you deliver it with love? I get an antagonistic feeling from your answer to Mira. While she may not have hit the mark you were aiming at, a gentle nudge might make her more willing to listen and learn.

Ephesians 4:12-16 to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

I admit that I'm not as spiritual as I could be; like Paul in Romans 7, I battle against the carnal nature. I have put on the armor of God, and I'm fighting to bring 2 Corinthians 10:5 into reality in my life.
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

As Mira says, going to church, reading the Bible, and receiving Sacraments are all an aid to me in this endeavor. They don't equal spirituality, but they are tools to be used. Don't you agree?:angel:

__________________
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1

Thank you Jesus!

M Paul

The verse under consideration does not just refer to being spiritual vs. carnal, but understanding the gifts of the Holy Spirit from a spiritual vs. carnal viewpoint.

Note Charles Talbert's Reading Corinthians. Paul begins this epistle noting at 1:6-8 crucial themes, which include spiritual gifts. Verse 13 presents three questions--Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptised in the name of Paul? He answers the second question in two parts: 1:18-31; 2:6-3:4. The first part sets out what Paul had preached previously at Corinth--Christ crucified--how, and why. The second part explains what he did not teach the Corinthians. At verse 2:15, we see he is defending himself from judgment by them. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

In ancient times, philosophers in the Mediterranean region taught both on exoteric and esoteric doctrines. Apparently, the Corinthians accused Paul of only having preached his exoteric doctrine, the cross, but neglecting the esoteric matters of the gifts of the Spirit. In this regard, Paul notes actually the stages commonly understood for the learning of spiritual doctrine-- the beginner, the one making progress, and the mature or perfect person, which he refers to in the first and third categories, as the babes in Christ or natural men, and the mature, or the spiritual man. He notes that the things of the Spirit man's wisdom does not teach, but the Holy Ghost teaches them himself, for the natural man regards them as foolishness. Paul could not teach them about the gifts of the Spirit, because as natural men, they were still babes in Christ. The gifts of the Spirit can only be taught to mature believers, but he had to feed them with milk. However, thereafter in the epistle he does teach more fully on the gifts of the Spirit, chapters 12-14.


Paul notes in chapter three that immature Christians, or worldy believers, create divisions when they cannot understand a spiritual view point. Therefore, he was patient with them. Note, he did not give up on them or judge them, but he gave them time. He did not tell them their relationship with God was defective or they were lesser Christians, but only that they were less mature.

M Paul

Liberty

Very well put, M Paul. It doesn't do anyone any good to belittle members of the Body of Christ. Like I said, a gentle nudge, and lots of prayers, would be in order, allowing the Holy Spirit time to work in the life of the babes.

I'd like to add a few questions a believer can ask him/her self, to find which type of Christian they are. Is God intimately involved in your finances? Does God lead you in your decisions about what to watch on TV? About what to do with your spare time? Does the Holy Spirit give you guidance in times of stress? If you look in a spritual mirror, are you seeing Jesus?

Like I said before, I've got some progress to make. But none of us has arrived yet, in my opinion. But Alleluia! Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Christ is in me...I've got the hope!


Do you have the hope?

__________________
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1

Thank you Jesus!

JimmyWest

Here is the problem with that concept. The carnal believer does NOT hear the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is remaining silent because the Holy Spirit will not compete with your flesh until you rebuke it by giving your entire being to the Lord. At that time, the believer goes from the carnal to the spiritual realm and the Holy Spirit will overide your flesh.
What I am saying is that the believer must initiate the process with commitment from his very soul as the process will not start automatically.

Banarenth

I think I at least understand what you are talking about since this is something weighing heavy on my own life lately. It really simply begs the question "Can a Christian Sin?". Recently a friend brought this up, and called into question is the prompting and guidence that Christians receive from the Holy Spirit the work of the Spirit dwelling in us, or simply the ministry of the Spirit to us calling us to real salvation and freedom from our sins. Reading through the Bible, in particular the New Testament, and studying both Christ's teachings and Pauls letters, I simply cannot find justification upon which a redeemed Christian is capable of sin or justified in excusing sin in his life. While I always believed when you have the Holy Spirit in your heart he will take away the desire to sin from your heart, I question whether or not that is part of initial salvation or a so-called "second blessing". Does that mean that those who sin, even after becomming believers and following the Holy Spirits prompting are not really saved until they fully give over their sinful nature to God? I question it. I fight it. But I question why I fight it. Is that my sinful nature fighting for control? Is it because I was always taught that salvation is basically "easy"? It definitely calls into question everything I ever learned growing up in church, everything I've ever heard taught. But upon truely studying the scripture in detail, I find it a harder and harder thing to "ignore".

LA-girl

Hi JimmyWest!

I think that what you are saying here is a very dangerous assumption to make and I strongly disagree with you. To me it seems like you are saying that if we receive the Holy spirit in the sense that you FEEL the spirit and hear the spirit, he will guide you in your walk with God and the Holy spirit will tell you when something in the bible is to be taken literally ans some things metaphorically. And that certain understanding of scripture can not be found unless you feel and hear the spirit. I have to protest against this as I know many what you would call carnal christians understand the scripture very well because they study scripture and not because they let a spirit inside them tell them that certain parts and scriptures is of less importance or which parts to take literal and not.

That is not to say that we do not need the Holy spirit, of course we do, but not in the sense you are describing. I believe that if we use the Bible in order to let it interpret itself and base theologies on several scriptures throughout the whole Bible we will get a logical and correct explaining in different biblical questions. Also using this method while studying the scriptures we will also learn when it is meant to be taken literal and when it uses symbols and allegories.

The reason why I think your assumption is particular dangerous is because there are many people in the socalled charismatic movements who say they physically feel the spirit and they trust that this spirit will tell them when something is wrong, even if it condradicts scripture. The reason I say this is because I know this to be the case as I know people have decided to trust what the "Holy spirit" tells them even though I know that it goes against the Bible. And when this happens we will soon end up with a whole different set of theologies and we will no longer know what is the truth or Gods will.

Now I also believe that when people say that they feel the Holy spirit they have a very strong feeling, but knowing that there are counterfit spirits out there who, especially in these last days, will do anything in order to deceive christians I'm afraid that when christians start trusting their feelings more than the Bible they are more prone to get into trouble and to be deceived.

Keep in mind that people in the Holy laughter movement also believe it is the Holy spirit who is responsible when the whole church starts laughing, crawling on the floor, barking and all in all posess a behaviour that you would expect to find in a mental institution rather than in Gods Holy Church.