seekinghokmah

I am not trying to be insulting, not in the least. Neither do I intend to diminish the damage or suffering incurred by those who mess with the occult…but blaming Halloween for your brother’s involvement, if that link is tenuous or inaccurate, only serves to diminish your witness.
It makes perfect sense that you have a personal aversion to Halloween as a result of your suffering, but it does not follow that Halloween, those who participate in it, or those who disagree with your feelings on it should become the target of your angst.
My family has suffered because of alcohol abuse, but I do not demonize alcohol or those who consume it because of my own negative experience. The occult is negative in any form, but Halloween as a modern phenomenon is not occult. I completely agree that those who use Halloween as an excuse to dabble in such practices are making a serious mistake…but writing off the entire holiday as evil and satanic will not convince anyone to heed our warnings. We are much more likely to reach people in that regard if we demonstrate that we are informed rational people who can think clearly on the matter and make the logical distinction between kids dressing up, and munching candy…and the self-styled Satanist who sacrifices the family cat for kicks! Learning the true history of Halloween will only strengthen your witness…your current stance sounds biased and narrow minded, is that the impression you want to project?
Children are not partaking of evil by dressing up and going trick-or-treating, though I would certainly discourage the darker themes. My children where cute fuzzy animals last year, super -heroes and a knight this year. They don’t like the scary stuff because I and my wife take the time to communicate our values to them every day…not just once a year.
Surely your brother’s negative choices cannot be blamed solely on one annual holiday? Perhaps if you or your family had done a little more research earlier on, your brother could have been warned of the real dangers of rebellion, in all its forms. I’m not trying to discount the truth of your experience; on the contrary, I am trying to encourage you to actively seek deeper truth for your own benefit. Put your experience in proper focus and grow from it instead of being crippled by the fear and pain it left behind.
If God is in control, then you have nothing to fear. By giving evil more credit than it is due you only empower it all the more. Fearful Christians who demonize Halloween, in my experience, usually provoke foolish skeptics to dabble in the dangers all the more just to prove how silly all us prudish Christians are.
Having an intelligent conversation with a non-believer about the real history of the holiday has often provided me with a firm basis to discuss the reality of true evil, and how we can avoid it and make better choices. Chasing demons out from every rock is one of the fastest ways I know to undermine any opportunity to witness or be a positive influence.
In love and respect,
s.h.

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Good questions, when answered, innevitably lead to better ones. The light is in the search, and the search itself is the destination.

KitsapGirl

You didn't get my point at all...I do not hold halloween to blame for _____ involvement in the occult. I don't understand how my testimony deminishes my witness. I have been told otherwise, by people who KNOW me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekinghokmah It makes perfect sense that you have a personal aversion to Halloween as a result of your suffering, but it does not follow that Halloween, those who participate in it, or those who disagree with your feelings on it should become the target of your angst.

I have never attacked any person who participated in halloween. I myself have been attacked for NOT participating. I'd like to have people understand that halloween isn't as innocuous as they believe it is.

Something we have in common. But the occult & alcohol are not the same thing. One is a drug, the other is purely spiritual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekinghokmah The occult is negative in any form, but Halloween as a modern phenomenon is not occult. I completely agree that those who use Halloween as an excuse to dabble in such practices are making a serious mistake…but writing off the entire holiday as evil and satanic will not convince anyone to heed our warnings. We are much more likely to reach people in that regard if we demonstrate that we are informed rational people who can think clearly on the matter and make the logical distinction between kids dressing up, and munching candy…and the self-styled Satanist who sacrifices the family cat for kicks! Learning the true history of Halloween will only strengthen your witness…

Here we agree. But don't write off halloween as just an excuse to dabble. It is one of the higest holy days on the ritual calendar

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Originally Posted by seekinghokmah your current stance sounds biased and narrow minded, is that the impression you want to project?

No not narrow minded...based in fact. Testimony of a witness IS at heart biased. If that is bias, so be it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekinghokmah Children are not partaking of evil by dressing up and going trick-or-treating, though I would certainly discourage the darker themes. My children where cute fuzzy animals last year, super -heroes and a knight this year. They don’t like the scary stuff because I and my wife take the time to communicate our values to them every day…not just once a year.

I'm glad you can have a fun day to create memories with your family. This is not what I'm against.

Thank you, I have done this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekinghokmah Put your experience in proper focus and grow from it instead of being crippled by the fear and pain it left behind.

Again, you assume too much. There is NO fear here. God has allowed me to endure this part of my history so that He can use me. there is no fear, orpain from what has happend...only realisation of truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekinghokmah If God is in control, then you have nothing to fear. By giving evil more credit than it is due you only empower it all the more. Fearful Christians who demonize Halloween, in my experience, usually provoke foolish skeptics to dabble in the dangers all the more just to prove how silly all us prudish Christians are.

There is just as much danger in discounting the power of evil. The truth of the matter is that this stuff is real, denying it doesn't make it go away. We need to know our enemy, not pretend it doesn't exist. This is more dangerous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekinghokmah Having an intelligent conversation with a non-believer about the real history of the holiday has often provided me with a firm basis to discuss the reality of true evil, and how we can avoid it and make better choices.

done this too.

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Originally Posted by seekinghokmah Chasing demons out from every rock is one of the fastest ways I know to undermine any opportunity to witness or be a positive influence.

Here I agree with you. this kind of activity is VERY damaging.

Please know that I respect your decision to take your kids out, but also respect mine.

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Whirlwind

Happy Halloween, everybody!

Tonight, I'm going to "Family Fun Night"

seekinghokmah

KitsapGirl, you are quite right…I clearly assumed far too much in my previous post regarding your personal situation…I humbly apologize. I re-read my last post and I can see it came off sounding quite negative and presumptuous; obviously I should not try to type responses on a short break at work ;-)
Bad me!! Naughty naughty! Please forgive me.
I did not mean to suggest your personal witness was ineffective, but simply that if we make a big fuss about how evil Halloween is…some people might not take us as seriously as we’d like. I have no doubt YOUR witness is superb, and of course I do not know you and am in no position to suggest otherwise.
My comment was focused only on the tone of your post…you sounded a bit defeatist.


Can you explain why you feel it is impossible “spin it to be Godly”?
Many of our current practices regarding Halloween as it’s celebrated in America were actually initiated by Christians, and early attempts were made by the church to Christianize the day, much like Easter and Christmas. One could certainly argue that the attempt was less than successful, but why give up trying? I am aware that witches have chosen to celebrate the pagan roots of the day (kind of a pagan revival), but they are a small group…and we certainly have no reason to surrender the day to them without an effort to make some aspects of Halloween “our own”. Satanists and other occultists are likewise a fringe group and not representative of the normal population’s approach to the day. We should, in my opinion, be able to put a more positive spin on Halloween based solely on demographics.

I do not deny the existence of or potency of evil itself…but I definitely question the way most people seem to define evil, and the degree of power often assigned to it by some Christians.

I definitely respect your position on Halloween, it is my sincere hope that we can both benefit from further discussion on the matter. You are clearly an intelligent person who does not just lead with your emotions. Again I apologize for my previous post…I have obviously allowed myself to become a bit defensive as a result of some of my previous discussions on similar topics. I have encountered a number of individuals who seem to live in fear of evil, and even engage in superstitious practices to “protect themselves” while placing those practices and beliefs under the banner of Christianity. It is not my intention to judge you or attack you for your approach to Halloween, or lump you in with anyone else. You are unique and worthy of sincere respect, and I shall endeavor to remind myself of that as often as necessary.

__________________
Good questions, when answered, innevitably lead to better ones. The light is in the search, and the search itself is the destination.

KitsapGirl

A good night of sleep helped me too. Halloween is probably the most puzzling holiday out there. The catholic church tried to absorb it by changing the focus from pagan worship to a day to honor the dead. (memorial day is similar in this respect) They were more successful with Easter & Christmas because they both center around Jesus. All of the symbols have successfully been tied back to Jesus...not so with halloween.

The day in its self is not evil. What is done in honor of that day, both by folks who know what they're doing, and those who don't is what sickens me.

I brought ____ into it because much of what he did on other days of the year, as well as on halloween, is done by people who do not know what they are taking part in, on halloween. it's seen as fun, and harmless.

The vast majority of people participate as candy seekers who like to dress in character costumes. This is true.

But the problem with that, is this...it is still putting the traditions of men above honoring God. Churches try, but fall short of honoring God on this day. The focus is on an "alternative" to halloween, (usually mirroring the pagan traditions) rather than at honoring God, and evangelizing. I have yet to see a "hallelujah festival", fall carnival, harvest celebration that is truely evangelizing. They are only halloween parties with a Christian sounding name. We are called to be the "light of the world", not alternitives of the world.


(you wanna hear something ironic? I'm a special effects makeup artist...blood & gore is what I do best.)

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smellycat

ok the kids don,t know and have fun,plus you get to see neighbours that you never see,plus the kids learn not to be scared of you.you have to take the good out of a bad thing.some of the parents scare me more than the kids lol..a smile is a bonus.

Boanerges

My plan tonight is to turn off the lights and not answer the door!

Boanerges

I used to set up a bucket with bags of candy- each one of these contains tracts with the plan of salvation- perhaps next year I will have the time and resources to do this.

smellycat

i turn my lights of too,see which kids have faith.lol

violet

Seekinghokmah: Can you explain why you feel it is impossible “spin it to be Godly�?
Many of our current practices regarding Halloween as it’s celebrated in America were actually initiated by Christians, and early attempts were made by the church to Christianize the day, much like Easter and Christmas. One could certainly argue that the attempt was less than successful, but why give up trying? I am aware that witches have chosen to celebrate the pagan roots of the day (kind of a pagan revival), but they are a small group…and we certainly have no reason to surrender the day to them without an effort to make some aspects of Halloween “our own�. Satanists and other occultists are likewise a fringe group and not representative of the normal population’s approach to the day. We should, in my opinion, be able to put a more positive spin on Halloween based solely on demographics.

I do not deny the existence of or potency of evil itself…but I definitely question the way most people seem to define evil, and the degree of power often assigned to it by some Christians.