|
|
|
|
|
|||||||
| Bible Studies Discuss on topics from the Bible. |
 |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
11-14-2007, 11:19 PM
|
#1 | ||
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 53
Rep Power: 2  |
 Arminianism and Calvinism beliefs have been debated for over 200 years. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle. This post will only cover the T. in T.U.L.I.P. Calvinism - Total Depravity Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not - indeed he cannot - choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit's assistance to bring a sinner to Christ - it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation - it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God. Arminianism - Free-Will or Human Ability Although human nature was seriously affected by the fall, man has not been left in a state of total spiritual helplessness. God graciously enables every sinner to repent and believe, but He does not interfere with man's freedom. Each sinner possesses a free will, and his eternal destiny depends on how he uses it. Man's freedom consists of his ability to choose good over evil in spiritual matters; his will is not enslaved to his sinful nature. The sinner has the power to either cooperate with God's Spirit and be regenerated or resist God's grace and perish. The lost sinner needs the Spirit's assistance, but he does not have to be regenerated by the Spirit before he can believe, for faith is man's act and precedes the new birth. Faith is the sinner's gift to God; it is man's contribution to salvation. Free-Will or Human Ability After the fall, man became totally lost and in slaved by sin. He is much more inclined to sin than to not sin. However, he still possesses ability to not sin, (posse non paccare). For proof of this one only has to look around him. Even the atheist doesn’t sin all the time. This does not mean they are saved. Without Jesus they are totally lost regardless of their works. Although he has the ability not to sin, it is impossible for him to never sin, (non posse non paccare). Man can not save himself. Salvation is only through God’s grace and his gift of salvation made possible by Jesus’ death and resurrection. Man chooses to accept God’s gift once offered. 
__________________
Sleep sound in Jesus, and may God's grace always be with you. Amen |
||
|
    
|
|
11-14-2007, 11:58 PM
|
#2 | ||
  
|
For those of you not familiar with tulip it stands for:
Total Depravity Unconditional Election Limited Atonement Irresistible Grace Perseverance of the Saints |
||
|
|
|
|
11-15-2007, 02:26 AM
|
#3 | ||
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: north central Indiana
Posts: 382
Rep Power: 2 |
Some aspects have been debated for a lot longer than 200 years. For instance the "T" was debated very early in church history by Augustine and Pelagius where Augustine won out by teaching man's total depravity over against Pelagius' view that man was able to perfectly obey God's law if he chose to do so. Augustine responded by teaching that originally, man was able to sin, or able to not sin. But, after the Fall man's nature was so corrupted that he was not able to NOT sin. After a person is saved they are restored to the pre fallen state, able to sin and able to not sin, and finally that one day when man is glorified he will not be able to sin. If you look at Calvin's Institutes you will see that he quotes no one more than Augustine, and really, to a large degree, he wanted to restore many of Augustine's teachings to their original prominence in the church. Eventually, even after Augustine won out over Pelagius and his teaching on man was solidified by the Council of Orange, unfortunately semi Pelagianism crept back into the church and remains the majority witness to this day. So, by saying this, you could guess that I would disagree that the truth is somewhere in between Calvinism and Arminianism, rather, that Calvin was much closer to biblical truth than Arminius.
blessings, Ken |
||
|
|
|
|
11-15-2007, 04:36 AM
|
#5 | ||
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 87
Rep Power: 2 |
I think that just because God knows what is going to happen does not mean that it was predestined. If he made us Love him that would be rape and God loves us so very much that he wants us to come to him to be our Father.
|
||
|
|
|
|
11-15-2007, 05:43 AM
|
#6 | ||
|
Senior Member
|
Arminianism and Calvinism beliefs both false doctrines this i know well.
__________________
Eccle 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
|
||
|
|
|
|
11-15-2007, 07:15 AM
|
#7 | ||
|
Senior Member
|
We must be careful when we talk about free will. God never gave us "free will". We either have a choice to obey God or disobey God,
If we did have "free will" then there would be no consequences for our actions. How can we say we have "free will" if the unsaved go to hell for disobedience? Nowhere in the bible is "free will" taught. Right from the very beginning God gave instructions to Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit. This was done for their own good and the good of mankind. God has commanded mankind to acknowledge Him and obey Him. This goes right through the New and Old Testament. We belong to God, we are His possessions. If we did have "free will" then where would that leave room for repentance. If we believe that God has given us freedom to accept Him or not, why are there rewards and punishment? If we truely believe that we have "freedom of choice" then why did Jesus have to pay the sacrifice for our sins? The mere definition of sin means rebellion against Gods will. Man is quickly losing His reverence for God, they have forgotten just who He is. Many people say "why worship a God who commands our obedience and love? Does this not make God a dictator?". This is one of satans deceptions for people to justify why they would not follow God so Christians instead of telling the truth, compromise and say "Oh no our God gave us free will to choose". The truth is that God created us for His will, not our own. Nothing we can do could ever change that. That is why we are saved by Grace and not works. All of mankind has sinned, if we had "free will" then nobody would be saved. God intervened and gave us Grace through His Son. God wants us to obey Him, He has commanded us to obey Him, He will not force us to obey Him but He will punish us for disobeying Him (refering to the unsaved). Let us not only concentrate on our salvation but also on why we where saved. |
||
|
|
|
|
11-15-2007, 02:14 PM
|
#8 | |||
|
|
KEVIN YOU ARE A GOOD BROTHER BUT I MUST CONFESS I AM HAVING TROUBLE WITH YOUR LOGIC HERE.
Quote:
|
|||
|
|
|
|
11-15-2007, 02:48 PM
|
#9 | ||
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Monroe, NC
Posts: 276
Rep Power: 2 |
I can see how "free" can be thought of as without cost or consequence, but that is not the context of the term,"free will." The word free is used simply to denote the ability to excercise our will, in this instance, to consciously CHOOSE for ourselves whether to follow God or not. It is meant to refute the calvanistic believe that we do not actually have a choice whether or not to follow God. If I understand Calvanism correctly, the belief is that to be called into faith by God means that we are born to believe, and God has taken control of our thoughts to make us believe. Therefore the ability to CHOOSE God is non existant, as is any independant will or ability of our own to repent from sin.
|
||
|
|
|
|
11-15-2007, 07:59 PM
|
#10 | ||
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 53
Rep Power: 2 |
Kevin,
I'm confused with what you have said about free will. The ability to choose right or wrong. Having free will is exactly why there is consequences to our actions. If we had no choice if it was all predestined then how could we be held accountable for our actions. However, we are indeed held accountable. Carolinasteve, Yes, you are correct. The error in Calvinism is that he could not understand how free will and predestination can co-exist...but they can. It is all about God's plan for the ages. He is to be glorified. God wants "willing" worshipers not robots. Daniels, Good point!
__________________
Sleep sound in Jesus, and may God's grace always be with you. Amen Last edited by GraceBwithU; 11-15-2007 at 08:07 PM. |
||
|
|
|
|
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Calvinism-the T.U.L.I.P. part 1
Linear Mode
